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Thread: Heavily-Upgraded Postal Hits Steam

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogi_berra View Post
    Care to point out where the Dude muses on Death and his place in society?
    Well, there are distinctions between the two mediums, so how it is expressed is going to be different. Hamlet, being an Elizabethan play, is going to consist of lengthy soliloquies on the matter while in Postal we have to rely instead on what the player himself sees, as well as the the comments offered up by the Dude and the people around him. It is somewhere in between were we can work out the Dude's thoughts on death and society, although the game tries to make the player himself more in charge of coming up with how they themselves should respond to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by yogi_berra View Post
    When he says "I should kill the women and minorities first" how is that a comment on societies treatment of people?
    It is a play on political correctness, which incidentally is a code people are supposed to follow when dealing with people in society. Your statement actually already contained the answer to your own question.

    Quote Originally Posted by yogi_berra View Post
    How is the Dude being fired, unfair? How is the attempt to arrest Gary Coleman unfair? How is his wife shooting him for forgetting her rocky road unfair?
    Being fired after re-locating your family to a new town the day after you arrived and never even being given a reason does not sound unfair to you? Does someone shooting you for something you have forgotten to do sound like a measured response to you? I am not even quite sure what point you are trying to make with this, but it certainly seems like life shitting on the Dude to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by yogi_berra View Post
    There is nothing "unfair" about the Dude's circumstances, you should learn to recognize hackneyed plot devices for what they are: an excuse for exploitative game action.
    All plot devices are meant as an excuse for more action. So are you going to write off all narrative forms as no longer being art? Or is it just games?

    Quote Originally Posted by yogi_berra View Post
    That wasn't a proper artistic analysis, but at least you attempted to explain yourself beyond an appeal to authority.
    To what authority am I appealing? I am not the one trying to create some sort of standard a creation has to attain in order to be considered art.

    Quote Originally Posted by yogi_berra View Post
    It is not thought-provoking in the least and no one can seriously call it beautiful, it's graphics were outdated on release.
    The thing is, what you have done there is already an artistic critique in of itself.

    Personally, I really like Postal 2's graphics as they are grungy, colourful, and over the top in a way that helps to dilute some of the dark themes explored while at the same time still managing to fit those themes like a glove. But that is my own critique of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by yogi_berra View Post
    Explain the message, the themes, and why you feel they have merit
    I think here I will just take the lazy man's out and just re-post a link to a review that already does that fairly well:
    http://web.archive.org/web/200502141...opic.php?t=629

    This argument has already taken up too much time for both of us. :P

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by icculus View Post
    Offending the audience is a perfectly valid artistic choice, and challenging the definition of art is how art moves forward. Ask everyone from Henrik Ibsen to Andy Warhol, and many before and after them.
    Andy Warhol sold crap to rich morons. They lapped it up and called it great, not a good choice to defend art or moving art forward.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamish Wilson View Post
    All plot devices are meant as an excuse for more action. So are you going to write off all narrative forms as no longer being art? Or is it just games?
    Cheap and lazy plot devices are still cheap and lazy no matter the medium.

    Personally, I really like Postal 2's graphics as they are grungy, colourful, and over the top in a way that helps to dilute some of the dark themes explored while at the same time still managing to fit those themes like a glove. But that is my own critique of it.
    They fit the world they were created for but they weren't great.

    This argument has already taken up too much time for both of us. :P
    I've spent very little time on this, to be honest, and you didn't convince me that Postal 2 is art.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogi_berra View Post
    Andy Warhol sold crap to rich morons. They lapped it up and called it great, not a good choice to defend art or moving art forward.
    Yeah... and he sold them that crap intentionally to prove that point about the art industry

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogi_berra View Post
    I've spent very little time on this, to be honest, and you didn't convince me that Postal 2 is art.
    Well to be honest, I don't really need to convince you on it. I have already made my point for those who will receive it. Arguing with you over subjective opinions is getting us nowhere.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogi_berra View Post
    Andy Warhol sold crap to rich morons. They lapped it up and called it great, not a good choice to defend art or moving art forward.
    Yeah, well, good for you for sticking to your guns, I guess.

    --ryan.

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