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Thread: Systemd 199 Has Its Own D-Bus Client Library

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by frign View Post
    It is part of the Kernel, because there is active support for its user-space-implementation. -- This stands in sharp contrast to PulseAudio, which is not endorsed by the Kernel; that makes me feel warm inside
    I seriously fail to see your point. ALSA has been shaped for the needs of PulseAudio for years because it's its primary user in the userspace. Most of the work has been done on fixing the timers of ALSA drivers. If there's some Jack specific code in the kernel; please point me to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by cjcox
    Just because I person can spew forth a LOT of code and create massive scope creeping projects doesn't mean he's "most notable"... unless you mean notable going both ways (positive and negative
    He's notable because many of his projects (PulseAudio, Avahi, systemd... among other things (or at Ohloh.net)) have been adopted very widely in the open source community.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by ceage View Post
    Q: What's your view on systemd? [...]

    Linus Torvalds: I actually like a lot of what systemd does. My personal biggest issue with systemd is: the people involved seem to think that change is good for it's own sake. I've seen Lennart Poettering, for example, talking about how something is bad because it's something that has been done for thirty years, and old is by definition bad. Which makes no sense at all to me because I'm saying if it's been working for thirty years, it's clearly doing something right. This is my standpoint while some of the systemd people have the exact opposite, which is saying ``If it's been working that way for thirty years, it's about time we changed it.'' That mentality makes me very nervous. They seem to sometimes make changes for the sake of changes and worry less about what people are used to. That's probably why systemd has generated so much negative feedback, because it takes people out of their comfort zones and doesn't feel bad about that at all. At the same time I think, a lot of what it does is interesting. So I'm a bit nervous about the development model and willingness to break things, which I think is a huge mistake, but I do think that it's showing a lot of promise.

    http://bambuser.com/v/3084584
    Thanks Ceage. I will agree with Linus that breaking things for the sake of breaking things is bad, but changing things isn't necessarily bad. Its a chance to experiment with a new architecture or new design idea, its a chance to try something new. We'd still be stuck in the dark ages of computing if people were so afraid of breaking things that they didnt question the status quo or try anything new. I fear the day that the motto of programmers becomes "Well its worked for 30years, so its good enough." Fuck that. What about striving to do better? What about being willing to take risks and experiment?

  3. #83
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    So I take that to mean that systemd is a risky experiment... OK, I can dig it.

    The question then is why the hell are so many distro's so quick to adopt such a risky experiment? It seems like a wave of retardedness has overrun our world.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teho View Post
    You do understand that those kernel features don't really mean anything if they aren't actually used by the userspace? systemd exposes and takes use of many of the modern kernel features like namespaces, seccomp, cgroups and soon kdbus. To my understanding one the problems with PulseAudio was that it didn't try to workaround problems in the kernel (ALSA drivers reporting false timing information) and therefore the drivers were fixed. Now it's pretty much the same with systemd; if they need something from the kernel they request it to be added or write it themselves (kdbus, firmware loading...).

    I hope you do also understand that Lennart wrote PulseAudio when he was still a stundent on his freetime. It however was widely adopted by free software community... because you know maybe because it was actually needed? It's nowadays used by pretty much every single desktop Linux distribution and also mobile and IVI platforms like Maemo, MeeGo, Tizen, webOS, Ubuntu Touch...

    You couldn't do worse job at advertising OpenRC. Do you honestly think that projects like MeeGo, Tizen, Fedora, openSUSE, Red Hat, Arch Linux, GENEVI Alliance and embedded industry at large had adopted systemd if they didn't have very good reason to do so? Sure systemd takes best from launchd, Solaris SMF and Upstart but the point is that the end result is better than anything of the past projects could do.

    You seriously got to be fucking kidding me. The anti-Lennart hate is essentially a meme, the guy has gotten death threaths, there has been petions wishing him to stop developing software, his wikipedia pages have been vandalized, some people seem to think that his projects are worth critizing just because they were written by him...
    It renders your argumentation quite invalid considering there are good reasons to hate Lennart Poettering.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by duby229 View Post
    So I take that to mean that systemd is a risky experiment... OK, I can dig it.

    The question then is why the hell are so many distro's so quick to adopt such a risky experiment? It seems like a wave of retardedness has overrun our world.
    Because apparently the distros like the benefits and the design that come with systemd. Its an experiment, yes, but its an experiment that people are liking apparently. One of two things is gonna happen.

    Either systemd is gonna work and the linux world will be better for it. Or it won't, and the developers and users will learn something from it to take into the future. Either one is good, a mistake is only a mistake if you don't learn from it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by frign View Post
    It renders your argumentation quite invalid considering there are good reasons to hate Lennart Poettering.
    The fact that Lennart writes free software is a good reason to hate him as a person? That's just sad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by duby229 View Post
    So I take that to mean that systemd is a risky experiment... OK, I can dig it.

    The question then is why the hell are so many distro's so quick to adopt such a risky experiment? It seems like a wave of retardedness has overrun our world.
    Indeed, everyone is insane and you're the only one who is not. That makes total sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ericg View Post
    Because apparently the distros like the benefits and the design that come with systemd. Its an experiment, yes, but its an experiment that people are liking apparently. One of two things is gonna happen.

    Either systemd is gonna work and the linux world will be better for it. Or it won't, and the developers and users will learn something from it to take into the future. Either one is good, a mistake is only a mistake if you don't learn from it.
    Yeah its a mistake that people have to deal with until then unfortunately. And thats the whole problem with LP fans. They seem to think that "This is the retarded way that I am doing things, so you have to do the things my retarded way at least until there is an uprising and we can't make you anymore."

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    Quote Originally Posted by bkor View Post
    Indeed, everyone is insane and you're the only one who is not. That makes total sense.
    Oh its faaaar from everyone and just me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by frign View Post
    It renders your argumentation quite invalid considering there are good reasons to hate Lennart Poettering.
    Reasons such as that when you ask Lennart a technical question, he will give a technical answer. When you have a technical discussion, he won't just resort to attacking you as a person immediately, he will first explain technically why you're stupid, then say out loud that you're an idiot.

    Loads of reasons to hate him indeed!

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