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Thread: Upstream X/Wayland Developers Bash Canonical, Mir

  1. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamish Wilson View Post
    First off, Wayland is not even developed by Red Hat, so how is this going to break this "Red Hat monopoly"?

    Second, there is some serious skewing of the facts based on what you are implying. Red Hat does not own any of these projects, has no copyright assignment on them, and does not even lead or develop on some of them (see Wayland where they do not do any development). Red Hat does indeed make a lot of money off of free software (are you going to say this is wrong when you are defending Canonical's fumbling attempts to get a profit?) but to say they "took advantage" of the software is almost a laughable statement, considering how much developer resources they have given back, many of which do not even benefit them directly but instead feed the entire upstream ecosystem.
    I consider the use of software to be taking advantage of it and I consider that to be a good thing. Your claims to the contrary appear to be based on a completely different understanding of English vocabulary.

    With that said, the idea that Wayland is completely divorced from the RedHat monoculture is absurd when I consider recent comments that have been made by RedHat employees, including those that contribute to Xorg development. If these people had no involvement with Wayland, they would not care enough to make these comments.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramiliez View Post
    Why do you prefer Canonical monoculture to Red Hat one?

    Which is better Wayland controlled by freedesktop.org or Mir controlled by single corporation with CLA
    I have yet to hear either party explain why I would want to use their display server over Xorg. Currently, Xorg does everything that I want.

    With that said, I would like a world where people can start open source projects in conflict with existing projects without any harassment for it. The response that the mere act of doing something different provokes in the open source community is childish. If you do not like what these guys are writing, either use something that you do like or write your own software.
    Last edited by ryao; 03-05-2013 at 06:48 PM.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryao View Post
    I have yet to hear either party explain why I would want to use their display server over Xorg. Currently, Xorg does everything that I want.
    There was a talk on the whole topic at LCA recently - see the video at http://mirror.linux.org.au/linux.con...land_and_X.ogv

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryao View Post
    With that said, I would like a world where people can start open source projects in conflict with existing projects without any harassment for it. The response that the mere act of doing something different provokes in the open source community is childish. If you do not like what these guys are writing, either use something that you do like or write your own software.
    Ryao, what happened to eudev?

  4. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
    Ryao, what happened to eudev?
    This has nothing to do with this thread.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryao View Post
    This has nothing to do with this thread.
    ....very true - but i also thought the exact same thing reading your comment that was quoted. ~ it seemed like your comment was driven by your own recent experiences and to _some_ degree they do relate, in terms of fragmentation and competing (similar) implementations of critical linux infrastructure/components;

    eudev = Mir
    systemd = Wayland

    (obviously, not literally but in terms of having some parallels(?) -> for sure).

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninez View Post
    ....very true - but i also thought the exact same thing reading your comment that was quoted. ~ it seemed like your comment was driven by your own recent experiences and to _some_ degree they do relate, in terms of fragmentation and competing (similar) implementations of critical linux infrastructure/components;

    eudev = Mir
    systemd = Wayland

    (obviously, not literally but in terms of having some parallels(?) -> for sure).
    I disagree with how you equate eudev with mir.... First of all eudev is a requirement if you want to -not- use systemd..... There is no corrolation.

    EDIT: I would even go further and say that there needs to be a complete udev replacement... It really wasnt that long ago when I was using a static dev that was far easier to use and maintain than what udev allows. Udev by its fundamental nature is broken POS that does -NOT- work and is is -NOT- adequate.
    Last edited by duby229; 03-05-2013 at 09:04 PM.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by duby229 View Post
    I disagree with how you equate eudev with mir.... First of all eudev is a requirement if you want to -not- use systemd..... There is no corrolation.
    from that perspective sure, but that's not what i was saying at all. I was more talking about the fragmentation and drama involved and the direction i see Mir going (the way of the dodo bird).

    EDIT: I would even go further and say that there needs to be a complete udev replacement... It really wasnt that long ago when I was using a static dev that was far easier to use and maintain than what udev allows. Udev by its fundamental nature is broken POS that does -NOT- work and is is -NOT- adequate.
    again, your taking it from a different angle.

    myself, i am quite happy using Systemd, it works great. it's easy to configure and better than anything i could use, imo. but to each their own.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryao View Post
    I consider the use of software to be taking advantage of it and I consider that to be a good thing. Your claims to the contrary appear to be based on a completely different understanding of English vocabulary.
    While I do fully agree that English can be a bloody obtuse son of a bitch, I am pretty sure my understanding to the term is the more general one.

    Quote Originally Posted by ryao View Post
    With that said, the idea that Wayland is completely divorced from the RedHat monoculture is absurd when I consider recent comments that have been made by RedHat employees, including those that contribute to Xorg development. If these people had no involvement with Wayland, they would not care enough to make these comments.
    Because they are invested in Linux by chance? Just like you and I are? Perhaps even more so because of Red Hat's stronger dependence on a strong upstream Linux community to continue to sell it's products. This is like saying that I as a Canadian had no reason to follow the last results of the US election because they do not directly involve me.

    It was daniel's who commented that Red Hat had not direct involvement in Wayland though, so I am taking that from him. He should know though.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryao View Post
    With that said, the idea that Wayland is completely divorced from the RedHat monoculture is absurd when I consider recent comments that have been made by RedHat employees, including those that contribute to Xorg development. If these people had no involvement with Wayland, they would not care enough to make these comments.
    Of course they care. Anyone who uses Linux has a reason to care. People aren't allowed to care about things they don't directly develop?

  10. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamish Wilson View Post
    It was daniel's who commented that Red Hat had not direct involvement in Wayland though, so I am taking that from him. He should know though.
    He would be wrong:

    Kristian Høgsberg is working at Red Hat on the Linux graphics stack including drm, mesa, X, cairo and more. The recent couple of years Kristian has been focused on clearing out the roadblocks that prevent us from enabling a composited Linux desktop by default. Towards this goal he has been instrumental in implementing AIGLX, which has allowed compiz and other compositing managers to run on X, and DRI2, which integrates accelerated OpenGL with the COMPOSITE extension. Recent developments in the Linux graphics stack has led Kristian to wonder whether X is our ideal window system.
    http://linuxplumbersconf.org/ocw/users/73

    I know that Kristian is no longer at Red Hat, but his Wayland proposal for the plumber's conference was published when he was at Red Hat.

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