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Thread: FSF Wastes Away Another "High Priority" Project

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  1. #1
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    Default FSF Wastes Away Another "High Priority" Project

    Phoronix: FSF Wastes Away Another "High Priority" Project

    There's a new situation concerning another high-priority Free Software Foundation project and the unwillingness by Richard Stallman and the FSF to cooperate with real-world free software developers...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTI4Mjc

  2. #2
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    Wow, it is retarded that LibreDWG is licensed under the GPLv3.

    It ought to be licensed under the LGPL or BSD license.

    This reminds me of the GNU Readline library which is also licensed under the GPL instead of the LGPL which causes pain to free software developers because now it cant be used in projects such as PHP.

    Some of these silly decisions (by RMS, FSF and the GNU project) really harm free software.

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    Quote Originally Posted by uid313 View Post
    Wow, it is retarded that LibreDWG is licensed under the GPLv3.

    It ought to be licensed under the LGPL or BSD license.

    This reminds me of the GNU Readline library which is also licensed under the GPL instead of the LGPL which causes pain to free software developers because now it cant be used in projects such as PHP.

    Some of these silly decisions (by RMS, FSF and the GNU project) really harm free software.
    Providing a piece of software under a certain license is harming no one; everyone's free to choose whatever software they want. However, a lot of software would flourish a lot better under open source rather than free software. If you're licensing your software under the GPL, you're flat-out alienating your software from closed source developers, which is a lot of programmers.

    The way I see it, API'S and LIBRARIES that are licensed under the GPL will just turn a lot of developers away, so they'll just write their own library that does what they need. Permissively licensed API's on the other hand opens itself up to every software developer on the fucking planet, increasing it's chances of having more people to contribute back. The world is not full of leeching bastards that will fuck everyone in the ass every chance they get. Some people will actually contribute back even though they don't have to. I think it's way better to open up your license to everyone in the world and let people voluntarily contribute back, rather than alienating yourself to only a certain portion of the world of software developers.

    With that said, I think the GPL is extremely useful for standalone applications and utilities, software that nobody is going to directly make money off of, but they really need. Coreutils, Blender, LibreOffice, Linux, etc. are good examples for licenses that I think do great under the GPL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vax456 View Post
    Providing a piece of software under a certain license is harming no one; everyone's free to choose whatever software they want. However, a lot of software would flourish a lot better under open source rather than free software. If you're licensing your software under the GPL, you're flat-out alienating your software from closed source developers, which is a lot of programmers.
    And that is the whole point, closed-source developers are in the wrong mindset, working on the wrong things on wrong terms.

    Remember what Libre-Software is all about? Not making life easier for closed source developers, who want to use this easy library/tool just so that they don't have to pay for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vax456 View Post
    The way I see it, API'S and LIBRARIES that are licensed under the GPL will just turn a lot of developers away, so they'll just write their own library that does what they need. Permissively licensed API's on the other hand opens itself up to every software developer on the fucking planet, increasing it's chances of having more people to contribute back. The world is not full of leeching bastards that will fuck everyone in the ass every chance they get. Some people will actually contribute back even though they don't have to. I think it's way better to open up your license to everyone in the world and let people voluntarily contribute back, rather than alienating yourself to only a certain portion of the world of software developers.

    With that said, I think the GPL is extremely useful for standalone applications and utilities, software that nobody is going to directly make money off of, but they really need. Coreutils, Blender, LibreOffice, Linux, etc. are good examples for licenses that I think do great under the GPL.
    I'll almost agree with you there. Libraries that are important for standards should be LGPL. Think an ogg-decoder or mkv reader. Why? Isn't it going against freedom? Yes, but, it also helps promote open formats. By doing so, even closed-source developers can easily integrate support for said formats and that is a big win.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oliver View Post
    And that is the whole point, closed-source developers are in the wrong mindset, working on the wrong things on wrong terms.

    Remember what Libre-Software is all about? Not making life easier for closed source developers, who want to use this easy library/tool just so that they don't have to pay for it.
    Closed-source developers are in a different mindset, working on their things on their terms.

    Libre-Software is not a war against removing closed source alternatives. If it's a war, it's for providing open source alternatives.

    Devs of closed source front-end will not open their code for the sake of using a GPL library, and FOSS gains nothing. If they use a LGPL library, they will contribute back to it. Which is arguably better, when the Libre-Software product is not the front-end, but that damn library.

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    Quote Originally Posted by erendorn View Post
    Devs of closed source front-end will not open their code for the sake of using a GPL library, and FOSS gains nothing. If they use a LGPL library, they will contribute back to it. Which is arguably better, when the Libre-Software product is not the front-end, but that damn library.
    FOSS simply doesn't want closed-source anything. If you want to write closed source and charge end users for it ... go away, FOSS wants nothing from you and you may not use FOSS's code.

    FOSS is open software developed by and for its own community of users. That community can, and does, include commercial companies (typically companies that do not sell closed source code as their product). Closed developers can go **** themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vax456 View Post
    Providing a piece of software under a certain license is harming no one; everyone's free to choose whatever software they want. However, a lot of software would flourish a lot better under open source rather than free software. If you're licensing your software under the GPL, you're flat-out alienating your software from closed source developers, which is a lot of programmers.

    The way I see it, API'S and LIBRARIES that are licensed under the GPL will just turn a lot of developers away, so they'll just write their own library that does what they need. Permissively licensed API's on the other hand opens itself up to every software developer on the fucking planet, increasing it's chances of having more people to contribute back. The world is not full of leeching bastards that will fuck everyone in the ass every chance they get. Some people will actually contribute back even though they don't have to. I think it's way better to open up your license to everyone in the world and let people voluntarily contribute back, rather than alienating yourself to only a certain portion of the world of software developers.

    With that said, I think the GPL is extremely useful for standalone applications and utilities, software that nobody is going to directly make money off of, but they really need. Coreutils, Blender, LibreOffice, Linux, etc. are good examples for licenses that I think do great under the GPL.
    The GPL license is not meant to be attractive for developers. You have a fundamental misconception here. The GPL license is inteded to give freedom to end users, and most decidedly not to make it attractive to closed source developers to exploit the code.

    Here, enlighten yourself, and see what it says:
    http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html

    “Free software” means software that respects users' freedom and community. Roughly, the users have the freedom to run, copy, distribute, study, change and improve the software. With these freedoms, the users (both individually and collectively) control the program and what it does for them.
    There is not a single word about freedoms or benefits for developers. When the original author writes code and places it under the GPL, his/her intent is that the code will forever retain the freedoms for users to run, copy, distribute, study, change and improve the code.

    Commercial developers are most decidedly not welcome.

    However, this does not mean that GPL code has no commercial utility. It just means that one cannot use the code as a closed secret meant to provide a commercial advantage over another party. This does not, however, prevent open collaboration amongst companies whose product is not software.

    Like so:
    http://www.engadget.com/2012/09/20/l...ade-workgroup/

    The Linux Foundation sees it differently and wants our cars to embrace the same notions of common roots and open code that we'd find in an Ubuntu box. Its newly-formed Automotive Grade Linux Workgroup is transforming Tizen into a reference platform that car designers can use for the center stack, or even the instrument cluster. The promise is to both optimize a Linux variant for cars and provide the same kind of years-long support that we'd expect for the drivetrain. Technology heavy-hitters like Intel, Harman, NVIDIA, Samsung and TI form the core of the group, although there are already automakers who've signaled their intentions: Jaguar Land Rover, Nissan and Toyota are all part of the initial membership.
    As long as the code stays open, under the GPL, and any manufacturer at all can use it, then these companies, whose products for sale are not the code itself, can save enormous costs by collaborating on software development and sharing the costs.

    That is the idea ... keep the code open, collaborate to share the costs, produce quality open code at the lowest cost possible, and everybody benefits (not just developers).

    This economic relationship, which involves co-operation and collaboration to reduce costs, is called a consumer's co-operative, by the way.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_cooperative

    Consumer cooperatives are enterprises owned by consumers and managed democratically which aim at fulfilling the needs and aspirations of their members. They operate within the market system, independently of the state, as a form of mutual aid, oriented toward service rather than pecuniary profit.
    Last edited by hal2k1; 01-25-2013 at 05:47 AM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by uid313 View Post
    Wow, it is retarded that LibreDWG is licensed under the GPLv3.

    It ought to be licensed under the LGPL or BSD license.
    Nothing retarded about it at all, GPLv3 is the right choice for LibreDWG. LGPL and BSD are lousy choices for freedom.

    Quote Originally Posted by uid313 View Post
    This reminds me of the GNU Readline library which is also licensed under the GPL instead of the LGPL which causes pain to free software developers because now it cant be used in projects such as PHP.

    Some of these silly decisions (by RMS, FSF and the GNU project) really harm free software.
    There are many non copyleft alternatives to GNU readline that are readily available. And no the FSF, GNU and GPLv3 are not hurting Free software in the slightest, Free software grows every year because of of the FSF/GNU and GPL.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by uid313 View Post
    Wow, it is retarded that LibreDWG is licensed under the GPLv3.

    It ought to be licensed under the LGPL or BSD license.

    This reminds me of the GNU Readline library which is also licensed under the GPL instead of the LGPL which causes pain to free software developers because now it cant be used in projects such as PHP.

    Some of these silly decisions (by RMS, FSF and the GNU project) really harm free software.
    The BSD licensed libedit/editline works pretty well as readline replacement though

    http://www.thrysoee.dk/editline/

  10. #10
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    I am with Stallman on this one, software should be "GPL3+ and later".
    The only difference between GPL2 and GPL3 is tivization exploit fix - a fix to license exploit that allowed to close down the platform, preventing GPL2 freedoms to be used anyway.

    Any developer that prefers "GPL2" over "GPL3" essentially needs that exploit and wants to produce closed source product.

    In this case, these people should really use BSD license instead.

    Quote Originally Posted by uid313 View Post
    Some of these silly decisions (by RMS, FSF and the GNU project) really harm free software.
    It is vice versa.
    People that use freedom granting license refuse to actually provide these freedoms, because their scheme is based on exploitation of the older version of the license.
    Last edited by brosis; 01-24-2013 at 11:23 AM.

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