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Thread: Nokia is dying (thanks to microsoft)

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonadow View Post
    If Nokia went Android they would have become just another Android handset maker.
    That is so often repeated I have stopped counting the occurrences, but being "just another Android handset maker" is not per se good or bad. For one, there is nothing which prevents Nokia from producing both Windows Phone and Android handsets. Secondly, differentiation among Android handset makers is much higher than among Windows Phone makers.
    Also, Android would have given them the necessary sales volumes that went away when they announced Symbian discontinuation.

    Anyway, Nokia-Microsoft agreement may expire in 2014 according to Eldar Murtazin. So what happens after that (if Nokia is still an independent entity then) is anyone's guess.
    http://www.mobile-review.com/article...ulki-215.shtml (Google Translation: http://translate.googleusercontent.c...ulki-215.shtml)

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonadow View Post
    wrong.

    If Nokia went Android they would have become just another Android handset maker. And that market is already packed enough with the likes of major giants such as Samsung, LG, Motorola and HTC (add in Huawei and ZTE for the low-end segment). There's just no place for Nokia there anymore. Sure they can make some sales with Android, but that's about it.

    With Windows Phone Nokia has relegated itself to a niche market, which of course is a huge drop from their previous 'World no.1' status. But even though Windows Phone uptake is slow (WP has approx 2 -3 % of the smartphone pie at best), this is a segment which Nokia almost totally owns for itself. The only alternatives are the HTC 8X, HTC 8S, and Samsung Ativ, which all barely register among consumers where WP is concerned because as far as they are concerned, Windows Phone = Lumia. Anyone who want to get a Windows Phone (like the one I'm using now) is almost guranteed to get a Lumia over the alternatives just because it's the poster maker for the operating system.

    Sp no, Nokia is not dying one bit. As long as Microsoft continues to develop Windows Phone, Nokia will always be the go-to maker for WP handsets and they will continue to do well in that segment. But their days as the most popular phone maker in the world are over.
    You are public LOL!
    One time, you say - SecureBoot is not harming Linux (and other OSes), where everyone says it does.
    Next day, you say - bye Linux, it was good time.
    Now you bullshit people about Nokia. FYI, Samsung, LG and HTC started producing Android and STAYED independent. But look at Nokia - they went bankrupt under one year, completely calling themself "crap".
    You are also too stupid to remember that Nokia had:
    1) Qt
    2) Maemo
    3) Symbian
    4) Mobile patent portfolio

    Thats 4 kill with one shoot.

    If Nokia continued its policy, they would be Android, Maemo and iPhone. Windowze monopoly would be OVER, as it would slowly seeking whom to attack, while FUDing windows-tax from Android (what they currently DO).

    "With Windows Phone Nokia has relegated itself to a niche market"
    It did not RELEGATE itself, it publicly called all own technology, devices and history - CRAP.
    And then, it looked at microsoft, because everyone refused to offer then anything.

    Seriously, you are pro-microsoft troll of the finest!

    "But even though Windows Phone uptake is slow"
    I hope you join windows and drain all down below 1% market. Well, its just well known tendency when joining microsoft - nothing more.

    "Anyone who want to get a Windows Phone (like the one I'm using now) is almost guranteed to get a Lumia over the alternatives just because it's the poster maker for the operating system."
    Aha. Like I could think anything different. Its a marvelous phone for hammering nails! Its solid... outside!

    "As long as Microsoft continues to develop Windows Phone, Nokia will always be the go-to maker for WP handsets and they will continue to do well in that segment. "
    Dream, baby, DREAM.
    You can DREAM, but you can't bullshit people! Only yourself. And that's because...:

    Quote Originally Posted by chithanh View Post
    That is so often repeated I have stopped counting the occurrences, but being "just another Android handset maker" is not per se good or bad. For one, there is nothing which prevents Nokia from producing both Windows Phone and Android handsets. Secondly, differentiation among Android handset makers is much higher than among Windows Phone makers.
    Also, Android would have given them the necessary sales volumes that went away when they announced Symbian discontinuation.

    Anyway, Nokia-Microsoft agreement may expire in 2014 according to Eldar Murtazin. So what happens after that (if Nokia is still an independent entity then) is anyone's guess.
    http://www.mobile-review.com/article...ulki-215.shtml (Google Translation: http://translate.googleusercontent.c...ulki-215.shtml)
    They are dead inside, duke! Like an empty hull! Worthless without windows. Perfect for microsoft - Elop is definately proud.
    They are all-dependent on microsoft. Eldar Murtazin has no idea how bound Nokia is to Microsoft. Its so heavy, its much more likely for Nokia as brand to disappear, than anything else!

    Say.. you can opt-out from microsoft today easier than before? Nope, its becoming sharker and sharker
    Last edited by brosis; 04-08-2013 at 01:05 PM.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonadow View Post
    wrong.

    If Nokia went Android they would have become just another Android handset maker. And that market is already packed enough with the likes of major giants such as Samsung, LG, Motorola and HTC (add in Huawei and ZTE for the low-end segment). There's just no place for Nokia there anymore. Sure they can make some sales with Android, but that's about it.

    With Windows Phone Nokia has relegated itself to a niche market, which of course is a huge drop from their previous 'World no.1' status. But even though Windows Phone uptake is slow (WP has approx 2 -3 % of the smartphone pie at best), this is a segment which Nokia almost totally owns for itself. The only alternatives are the HTC 8X, HTC 8S, and Samsung Ativ, which all barely register among consumers where WP is concerned because as far as they are concerned, Windows Phone = Lumia. Anyone who want to get a Windows Phone (like the one I'm using now) is almost guranteed to get a Lumia over the alternatives just because it's the poster maker for the operating system.

    Sp no, Nokia is not dying one bit. As long as Microsoft continues to develop Windows Phone, Nokia will always be the go-to maker for WP handsets and they will continue to do well in that segment. But their days as the most popular phone maker in the world are over.
    As "just another" Android handset maker, they would have the opportunity to sell phones that are at least APPEALING. Selling MS just guarantees failure.

  4. #54
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    The crappy decision was to stick only with WP well I am pretty they force them to.

    Other manufacturers are making both Android and WP phones so they are only shooting themselves in the foot.

    I am pretty sure MS wants crash them so they can get them pretty cheap.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by droidhacker View Post
    As "just another" Android handset maker, they would have the opportunity to sell phones that are at least APPEALING. Selling MS just guarantees failure.
    It's mean loosing money. As its now one android phone maker is doing incredibly good, Samsung. One is doing okay, Htc. The rest is in pretty bad shape. I'm not sure it is space for much more than two android big quantity phone maker in the long run. The rest need two find some sort of low quantity high margin niche or die. Or choose another platform with less competition, as nokia did. Of course the window phone market has almost as hard competitiveness as android for a new manufacturer now.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akka View Post
    It's mean loosing money. As its now one android phone maker is doing incredibly good, Samsung. One is doing okay, Htc. The rest is in pretty bad shape.
    That's bollocks. No major Android manufacturer lost nearly as much money in 2012 as Nokia did. Among the top 10 smartphone makers, there is no Android manufacturer whose smartphone division currently produces losses. In fact, Android was what kept Sony and LG mobile business afloat.

    1. Samsung - very profitable
    3. Huawei - profitable
    5. ZTE - smartphones profitable, company as a whole unprofitable
    7. Sony - smartphones profitable, company as a whole expects to return to profits this quarter.
    8. HTC - slightly profitable
    9. LG - profitable
    10. Lenovo - profitable

    Sidenote: I'm a bit concerned about what you and Sonadow post here. That is very close to the scripted content one sees from Microsoft astroturfers. I'm not saying that you are, but form your own opinion and avoid parroting stuff you read elsewhere.

  7. #57
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    Last quarter the market shrank. But Samsung and Apple took shares, go figure...

    try to get some numbers on the mobile part of the companies, most of them did not profit in the end of last year. Sonys mobile division, earlier Sony Erickson has been a sick company the last five years probably longer and has got constant boost with money from Erickson and Sony times after time. You could almost compare them with a them with the Swedish company Facit (sonys mobile division began more or less as Ericksons in sweden before the collaboration and later the sale of the mobile division to Sony) Facit was the biggest company in the world on mechanical computing devices. The companies margins was more or less killed over a night when the competition with cheap mostly Asian electronic computing devices exploded. The company tried to adept and began sell devices from Hayakawa (Sharp) under their strong brand, but there margins (and there name) was gone and they withered. In the end electrolux bought them and some years later sold the remains to Erickson (later the mobile phone maker).
    Nokia scruved up big time, but long before Elop. When he came along it was to late to bet succefully Android and there own platforms was to little and to late. Personally I don't think they could motivate the big development cost for there own platform as they was way to late with meego to keep their earlier hugh market share.
    The market is in flux because its for the last years has been easy to get a mobile platform and in the same time every one can get the same operating system as every one else. Most has the same production facilities. It has killed the margins and has created huge problems for many of the old mobile manufacturers and the price press is murdering. Nokia bet on their own platform to differentiate to keep their margins ( like the old CEOs parable about peeing in the pants first you get warm (you reduce your costs with android) and therafter you get cold (when the price press starts)) but they failed. Now they try to minimize the damage and shrink the company to the new reality. (And it's look like the smaller new company do some money again.)

  8. #58
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    That is why I suspect an inside deal with the board and Microsoft.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akka View Post
    try to get some numbers on the mobile part of the companies, most of them did not profit in the end of last year.
    Didn't you read what I wrote above? Their smartphone divisions are all profitable, even from the companies that posted a loss last year. I gave you two links where you inform yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Akka View Post
    Sonys mobile division, earlier Sony Erickson has been a sick company the last five years probably longer and has got constant boost with money from Erickson and Sony times after time.
    Yes, the problems with Sony Ericsson are well documented. In the WSJ article that I linked above you will find an explanation why it didn't work and how Sony is doing much better alone now. Hint: The reason was not Android.

    Quote Originally Posted by Akka View Post
    Nokia scruved up big time, but long before Elop. When he came along it was to late to bet succefully Android and there own platforms was to little and to late. Personally I don't think they could motivate the big development cost for there own platform as they was way to late with meego to keep their earlier hugh market share. The market is in flux because its for the last years has been easy to get a mobile platform and in the same time every one can get the same operating system as every one else. Most has the same production facilities. It has killed the margins and has created huge problems for many of the old mobile manufacturers and the price press is murdering. Nokia bet on their own platform to differentiate to keep their margins ( like the old CEOs parable about peeing in the pants first you get warm (you reduce your costs with android) and therafter you get cold (when the price press starts)) but they failed. Now they try to minimize the damage and shrink the company to the new reality. (And it's look like the smaller new company do some money again.)
    That quote could also come from Microsoft astroturfing handbook. No informed observer, none of the big analyst houses, nobody except for the Microsoft camp actually believes that this is true. And in any case, this is based on the assumption that you cannot sell both Android and Windows Phone.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akka View Post
    It's mean loosing money. As its now one android phone maker is doing incredibly good, Samsung. One is doing okay, Htc. The rest is in pretty bad shape. I'm not sure it is space for much more than two android big quantity phone maker in the long run. The rest need two find some sort of low quantity high margin niche or die. Or choose another platform with less competition, as nokia did. Of course the window phone market has almost as hard competitiveness as android for a new manufacturer now.
    There's tons of different manufacturer's of Android phones. Google themselves, aka MOTOROLA. LG. CATERPILLAR TRACTORS even. You don't need to be the "biggest" in the market in order to be successful.

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