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Thread: Nokia is dying (thanks to microsoft)

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by dee. View Post
    Then why is their Symbian OS still doing better than Windows Phone, even though they have discontinued it?
    Oh sure, Windows Phone hasn't performed nearly well enough. But hey, at least they tried.

    Quote Originally Posted by dee. View Post
    Symbian was due to be shelved for sure, but teaming up with Microsoft and going with WP was obviously a horrible choice.
    I wouldn't say obviously horrible. Definitely very bold.

    Quote Originally Posted by dee. View Post
    Meego wouldn't have bankrupted them. The Meego phones they made are still so popular that people still pay for them even though the OS is pretty much unsupported. Jolla seems to be doing fine with Sailfish, obviously it's a bit early to say, but why do you think Nokia couldn't have done what Jolla is doing now? The Jolla workers are even the same people who were in Nokia at the time, so it's not a question of expertise, nor resources. There's really no good reason why Nokia couldn't have succeeded with Meego.
    With all due respect to the Jolla guys (and I do wish them the best of luck), most of them were from the build and integration team. Very few of the engineering team went over to Jolla. But anyway - look at how enormously outsized the MeeGo organisation was for one single phone, which shipped years late, in a very small number of countries, with barely any localisation or operator support, no app ecosystem, an upgrade strategy worse than Android (seriously, the only major OS upgrade a shipped product ever received was the 770 getting the ITOS update to add VoIP support - every other one was abandoned before you could buy it). And the designated path to the future was to bin half the underlying MeeGo-Harmattan OS and replace it with MeeGo proper. Which would've taken how many years?

    Outside of the serious enthusiast press, the N9 received very little attention, and even then a great deal of it was lavished on the industrial design - which was certainly best in class. Unfortunately the hardware was a couple of years out of date and the software just wasn't good enough. (Ever actually tried to use the keyboard? Or deal with Tracker's famed 'just out of time' indexing, where it finishes pegging your CPU shortly after you'd given up on actually being able to listen to music? Or how about syncing your phone with anything? The Twitter app? Email?)

    And this is the phone which would've saved the company.

    Quote Originally Posted by dee. View Post
    Come on, you don't believe that yourself.
    I really do.

    Quote Originally Posted by dee. View Post
    Elop did several mind-numbingly fuckwitted things that single-handedly caused a huge collapse in Nokia's revenue and worth. Burning platforms?
    Announcing it without a product to ship definitely wasn't the greatest, but again, look at how their stock price was trending since long before he took over. It's not like he stepped into something with the commercial and market strength of Apple and screwed the pooch. I'd be much more concerned if he'd actually tried to bet the company on shipping MeeGo.

    Quote Originally Posted by dee. View Post
    Ah, that's not a testament of Nokia's marketing genius, it's rather of the sorry state of Microsoft's mobile OS. No one knows or remembers any other windows phones other than the Lumias. And when it comes to the Lumias, they're mainly notorious for being crappy phones and breaking all the time.
    As opposed to S60's glowing reputation, or the non-existent (outside tech enthusiast forums) reputation of MeeGo-Harmattan?

    Quote Originally Posted by dee. View Post
    Two years before Elop, Nokia was still the biggest phonemaker. Nokia had the best carrier relations, and they were doing great everywhere except the US market, which has always been difficult to conquer for Nokia.
    Two years before Elop, Nokia's share price had already started crashing. He obviously didn't reverse the trend, but pinning the entire woes of a company on one man isn't fair, accurate or helpful. Even if I agreed with your reasoning, which I very much don't.

    Also, look at other events which have happened since then: Android maturing, and attacking all market segments, from Samsung's high-priced flagship-every-six-months to random Chinese OEMs white-anting S40's marketshare with €50 smartishphones (remind me again too, what was MeeGo's low-cost strategy?); Apple becoming the most valuable company on the planet by not only shipping boatloads of iPhones, but getting the halo effect from the iPad; the similar demise of RIM/Blackberry, for which people seem to see a totally broken company and corporate culture on every level rather than just blaming one person; 'app' has become one of the most-used words, forcing Android to completely change every element of its deployment strategy to even compete at all in an area where neither Symbian nor MeeGo have ever, ever been relevant.

    Ten years before Elop, Nokia had amazing tech in its research labs which they still haven't managed to productise. It was (and still is) great at the logistics of shipping very cheap and simple phones, squeezing every cent out of the margins. The Lumia series is the first really viable phone series I've seen them ship and execute on since the N95, and even then they found a way to screw the pooch: after publicly announcing that they'd receive major upgrades, they claimed that WP7 phones couldn't get upgrades as WP8 supported SMP and NFC, and tried to keep the early adopters happy with a tiny incremental upgrade that let you change the size of tiles. Proof that as an organisation, they're still totally incapable of growing and supporting an ecosystem. And that's not new, or any one person's fault.
    Last edited by daniels; 04-17-2013 at 08:38 PM. Reason: fix broken quote

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by chithanh View Post
    I don't understand why people keep on claiming that Nokia had to choose between MeeGo, Android and Windows Phone. Samsung was smaller than Nokia when the change in strategy was announced, and could sustain operations with 3 mobile platforms (Android, Bada, Windows Phone), no reason why Nokia couldn't do the same and instead had to put all eggs in one basket.
    Samsung are a large, diverse and profitable enough company to be able to afford to screw around with loads of different mobile platforms. More to the point, they can actually do so very cheaply and quickly; Nokia have proven over the past ten years that they can't.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akka View Post
    Take care soon "chithanh" accuse you for astroturfing for Microsoft.
    Probably shouldn't tell him that, after three and a half years of iPhones, I ended up getting a Lumia 800 on contract with my own money. (Though I was pissed off enough by them refusing to upgrade it to WP8, amongst other flaws like terrible multitasking and still having no Instagram client in 2013, that I'm going back to an iPhone.)
    Last edited by daniels; 04-17-2013 at 08:49 PM.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by daniels View Post
    More to the point, they can actually do so very cheaply and quickly; Nokia have proven over the past ten years that they can't.
    So what? Worst case Nokia would have needed to buy a Chinese white-box Android manufacturer and put their mobo into a N9 case (like they did with Compal's mobo for the Lumia 900).

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by daniels View Post
    Two years before Elop, Nokia's share price had already started crashing. He obviously didn't reverse the trend, but pinning the entire woes of a company on one man isn't fair, accurate or helpful. Even if I agreed with your reasoning, which I very much don't.
    I agree that Elop is not to blame for going Windows, but he accelerated the demise with bad management decisions. If I am informed correctly, the Nokia board saw the writing on the wall long before. So they asked no less than Jean-Louis Gassée who famously told them to go Android. But this advice was rejected and Elop was hired to make Windows phones.

    Btw. there is a very interesting recent Interview with Mr. Gassée where he talks about mobile and Apple mostly. Don't mind the interviewer though.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DheH_LRh86I

    Quote Originally Posted by daniels View Post
    white-anting S40's marketshare with €50 smartishphones (remind me again too, what was MeeGo's low-cost strategy?)
    MeeGo was not intended for the low-cost market, that was Meltemi I think. But then, there is no low-cost Windows phone either.

  6. #96
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    Actually Nokia started counting Asha phones as smartphones now, so their self-proclaimed share will be higher than 5%.

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    I'm really looking forward to testing it.

  8. #98
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    Nokia quarterly results are out, and Horace Dediu from Asymco made a very nice graph depicting the history of Windows Phone at Nokia:

    Source: http://www.asymco.com/2013/04/18/lum...light-visible/ (via OSnews)

    The vertical white line is when Nokia announced the switch from Symbian to Windows phone.

  9. #99
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    This stats only show how bad the Symbian line has done in the smartphone segment the last years. I don't think anyone denied that. The earlier growth is only a movement between dumbphones to smartphones in the market, it was not a movement to nokia. Totally Nokia has (mostly) lost market share slowly since 2008 in unit sold phones if I'm remember correct. (I'm nut sure but I'm guess their last really successful premium phone was the n95 released same years as the first Iphone)
    But I think the pictures stats look suspect. I think it exclude the asha smartphone lines or something, I'm pretty sure Nokia last quarter still sold more asha smartphones than lumia phones in unit sold phones.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akka View Post
    I think it exclude the asha smartphone lines or something, I'm pretty sure Nokia last quarter still sold more asha smartphones than lumia phones in unit sold phones.
    Yes, Asha(S40) is not included because only Nokia sees Asha as smartphones while the analysts don't.

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