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Thread: Gentoo Announces Eudev Project -- Its Udev Fork

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by 89c51 View Post
    ON the same email you can also read:
    Uhm, did you read the part that says:

    "We will not polish that, or add new features to that or anything."

    You actually even quoted it.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by RealNC View Post
    Uhm, did you read the part that says:

    "We will not polish that, or add new features to that or anything."

    You actually even quoted it.
    I don't read this as we will not accept patches that let it built by itself. If someone posted a patch like that and lennart or kay rejected it -i am not following systemd that much- then ok.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by 89c51 View Post
    ON the same email you can also read:
    I like how you fail to understand your own quote.

    Say that newer kernel introduces the possibility of some new features when it comes to how modules/firmwares are handled, and you want your system to make use of them.
    Then according to that letter you quoted you either have to start using systemd-udev (that is systemd and their version of udev), or fork udev.
    This since the standalone-version of udev you can build from the systemd sources will, according to your quote, not receive polishing nor new features.

    See the problem with that?

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xake View Post
    I like how you fail to understand your own quote.

    Say that newer kernel introduces the possibility of some new features when it comes to how modules/firmwares are handled, and you want your system to make use of them.
    Then according to that letter you quoted you either have to start using systemd-udev (that is systemd and their version of udev), or fork udev.
    This since the standalone-version of udev you can build from the systemd sources will, according to your quote, not receive polishing nor new features.

    See the problem with that?
    I see the problem with assumptions possibilities ifs and whens. So in your case until the kernel introduces features that require a fork i don't see the need for one. But of course they are free to do whatever they want and fork whatever. In the same way people are free to built shelters because the end of the world (or the E17 release ) is coming on the 21st.

    More drama.
    https://plus.google.com/115547683951...ts/jcCjMct3SJ3

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teho View Post
    When? Because it's definetly still supported.
    the moment when L.P. posted an email that udev outside of systemd is not supported anymore and there will be zero new features for udev-outside-systemd users.

    compare this:
    http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linu...ug.devel/17392
    with this:
    http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linu....general/44475

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by 89c51 View Post
    I don't read this as we will not accept patches that let it built by itself. If someone posted a patch like that and lennart or kay rejected it -i am not following systemd that much- then ok.
    William Hubbs wrote patches for that which Lennart Poettering rejected.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryao View Post
    William Hubbs wrote patches for that which Lennart Poettering rejected.
    You mean these?
    http://www.mail-archive.com/systemd-.../msg05287.html

    So if I understand this right in systemd-devs pov if you wanted to use only udev you have to compile whole systemd at the same time. This would be ok binary distros like ubuntu and tho upstart, but not in source distros like gentoo. If I would want to use only udev with gentoo I don't want to compile something that are not needed, it's just a waste of time and resources of my own computer. And what Hubbs suggested with his patches is to add two configure flags that make possible to compile only udev.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by tuke81 View Post
    You mean these?
    http://www.mail-archive.com/systemd-.../msg05287.html

    So if I understand this right in systemd-devs pov if you wanted to use only udev you have to compile whole systemd at the same time. This would be ok binary distros like ubuntu and tho upstart, but not in source distros like gentoo. If I would want to use only udev with gentoo I don't want to compile something that are not needed, it's just a waste of time and resources of my own computer. And what Hubbs suggested with his patches is to add two configure flags that make possible to compile only udev.
    That summarizes it.

  9. #29

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    For what it is worth, Koen tried yesterday to upstream a patch that I wrote to restore support for older kernels, but it was rejected. Kay Sievers wrote a longer email than what I quote here, but here is an abridged version:

    We generally do not want to work around kernel or libc "bugs". So I'm
    not interested in such a patch.

    People who want or need to play these match-and-mix games with "new
    userspace on old systems" should fix the dependencies where they are
    missing, not expect "magic" workarounds from tools. There are many
    subtle dependencies on various things which are not available on old
    kernels and libc, this is just a very obvious one. We should not
    pretend we support that model, we just don't. And it will get even
    harder in the future, as we are trying to build a real OS now not a
    "bag of bits".
    http://lists.freedesktop.org/archive...er/007763.html

    The two projects have orthogonal priorities. eudev favors long term compatibility as a modular component while systemd favors the single tree approach where support for older versions of components is pointless. Both have merits.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryao View Post
    For what it is worth, Koen tried yesterday to upstream a patch that I wrote to restore support for older kernels, but it was rejected. Kay Sievers wrote a longer email than what I quote here, but here is an abridged version:
    http://lists.freedesktop.org/archive...er/007763.html
    To complete the version:
    We surely will not make anything harder than it needs to be, but
    pretending bleeding edge tools will or should work on 2 years old
    kernels is a promise we do not want to make with systemd/udev. In this
    case, it would be the job of the libc, not the user of libc.

    We surely support things the other way around, what the kernel is
    doing, which is new kernels on old systems, but doing it both ways is
    not really the goal for us.
    Is that what eudev was all about? Running newer udev on very old kernel release?
    Last edited by finalzone; 12-18-2012 at 04:53 PM.

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