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Thread: Richard Stallman Calls Ubuntu "Spyware"

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonadow View Post
    Case in point:
    - AMD did not support Linux with binary blobs until recently. FOSS cried foul that Linux was not suppoted
    - AMD released buggy fglrx. FOSS cried foul that the drivers were subpar
    - AMD improved fglrx greatly. FOSS cried foul because the closed nature of fglrx prevented them from leaching code that could be used for the free Radeon driver
    - AMD released specifications for graphics chipsets. FOSS cried foul because those specifications were 'insufficient'...and they can't even get RadeonSI working properly after alll the noise they make

    - Nvidia produces an impressive binary driver for Linux which is updated to support newer versions of xserver much faster than AMD. FOSS cried foul because they cannot steal code from the Nvidia driver to improve their really subpar Nouveau driver
    Users are always going to demand more. That's true under both Linux and Windows. As a Windows gamer for many many years, I remember when nVidia drivers sucked for Final Fantasy XIV and I remember when AMD drivers sucked for Metro 2033.. Plenty of gamers demanding these companies meet their demands, and there's nothing wrong with it in the Windows world.. I don't see why Linux users making different demands to the same companies should be treated any different just because they're different demands. Sure, it'd be nice if users were always happy, but that's not going to happen..

    Also, in the name of progress, the user's shouldn't just be quiet and quit complaining.. Some users (both Windows and Linux users alike) probably complain too much over well-known problems and make themselves very vocal, but they're just outliers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonadow View Post
    If the FOSS community is so capable, why can't they do everything without crying foul on how they cannot leech code from proprietary sources? Or rather, why do they even have to create 'alternatives' to popular commercial software instead of thinking up of those programs themselves right from the get go?
    C'mon, there's plenty of open source software that is pure genius in it's design. I'll take filelight as an example. That program is full of pure genius, words cannot even begin to describe it. I remember years ago SGI had gone all out in their file explorer/navigator with OpenGL up to whazoo to try to solve a problem of visualizing where your disk space is going.. Filelight does it much much better and without OpenGL.

    There are quite a few open source apps on Linux that are 100% original creations and pure creativity and ingenuity if you know where to look.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sonadow View Post
    - Adobe KNOWS that people need creative tools like sophisticated video editors and image editing software (think Creative Suite). So did Sony (Vegas), Apple (Final Cut + Aperture) and Pinnacle (Pinnacle Studio), among many others. Why did it take so long for FOSS to come out with GIMP and a bunch of crappy excuses for non-linear video editors a whole decade AFTER Adobe, Apple, Sony and Pinnacle already entrenched themselves in the creative market?
    The problem with the video editors in the past has always been that codecs and containers the video files were stored in were proprietary closed-source nightmares. So open source software has always been at a huge disadvantage and in order to even come close, has in the past, required binary blobs of video codecs which are really hard to work with and get any extra flexibility out of. When you're working with binary blobs, you lose a massive amount of flexibility to do whatever you like and that creates problems. Yet, you're forced to work with binary blobs because the source of all your video (camcorders, cameras, web streams, DVD rips, etc.) came from proprietary multimedia codecs.

    I used to do a ton of Video editing, and I'll tell you one thing that open source did right that no other video editing company did.. They created a multimedia container (mkv) that supported multiple subtitle tracks, multiple audio tracks, and multiple video tracks. Which was a technology that was seen before for DVDs but had never before simplified down into a single multimedia file until mkv came around.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonadow View Post
    A developer community which has no idea of what today's users actually need to do on a computer has no right to tell people what they should/should not do. Period.
    Some devs do, some devs don't. The devs that don't most likely don't know because they're only focused on meeting their own needs with the hope that other people might need it at well (sometimes true, sometimes not). Don't say the whole dev community doesn't know what users want because that's false.. A lot of devs know, but are just too busy to deliver it, while there are some devs that know and are also able to deliver it (Marek for example).

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonadow View Post
    Stallman is an idiot, full stop.
    Actually, he's a pretty smart guy whose rhetoric is a bit too much for some.

    "The 'very seductive' moral and ethical rhetoric of Richard Stallman and the Free Software Foundation fails not because his principles are wrong, but because that kind of language ... simply does not persuade anybody" - Eric S. Raymond

    Sad, but true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonadow View Post
    This is the same guy who opposes Steam on Linux because playing closed proprietary games with DRM is evil and unethical.
    “This development can do both harm and good. It might encourage GNU/Linux users to install these games, and it might encourage users of the games to replace Windows with GNU/Linux,” he wrote. “My guess is that the direct good effect will be bigger than the direct harm. But there is also an indirect effect: what does the use of these games teach people in our community?” - Source

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonadow View Post
    Once again he has proven himself to be completely clueless to what most people WANT to do on their computers. People want software and application, not licenses.
    He is concerned with freedom and liberty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonadow View Post
    If this luddite really cares about user freedom he should just shut up about people installing non-free software on a free operating system.
    He is merely expressing an opinion, which appears to be correct. If you have any contradicting evidence against his claim that Ubuntu is "Spyware" please feel free to present it. Otherwise, posting an incoherent rant and telling people to shut up makes his rhetoric (or lack thereof) pale in comparison to yours.
    Last edited by Loafers; 12-08-2012 at 01:43 AM.

  3. #43
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    I can't help but notice that all the people arguing that Stallman is a zealot (which I honestly can't disagree with), harmful, an enemy of freedom, an idiot, or whatnot have not bothered to explain why he is wrong in this particular case. As Churchill said, "The greatest lesson in life is to know that even fools are right sometimes". Just asserting that he is an idiot, crazy, irrelevant, harmful, or whatever (not that I agree he is) does not mean that he is wrong about Ubuntu containing spyware and adware.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBlackCat View Post
    I can't help but notice that all the people arguing that Stallman is a zealot (which I honestly can't disagree with), harmful, an enemy of freedom, an idiot, or whatnot have not bothered to explain why he is wrong in this particular case. As Churchill said, "The greatest lesson in life is to know that even fools are right sometimes". Just asserting that he is an idiot, crazy, irrelevant, harmful, or whatever (not that I agree he is) does not mean that he is wrong about Ubuntu containing spyware and adware.
    Stallman is like Jesus. He wears cheap cloths, doesn't have millions and never exploited his position. He calls shit - "shit" and questions why people accept this. Many hate him for this, other call him idiot. He has proved many many times to be correct. Which in turn means those disagreeing with him are short sighted and FUDing. Yes, he is worth own religion, he is cooler than JC Denton.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pairofslacks View Post
    Do you have any proof to back that statement up? I mean you have to be trolling, you're seriously suggesting the FSF wants to take away the freedom to install non-free software on your own computer?

    The FSF showcases and ultimately recommends 100% free as in freedom distros because those are in line with what they themselves have set out to do. You can talk about how they still don't recommend Debian (I think it was only recently that they're targetting all free software), but they in fact do recommend an Ubuntu based distro called Trisquel. The point is to have no non-free bits out of the box if I understand it correctly, and certainly not to take away your ability to install software with any license you want manually and third party repos. No one's preventing you from installing wine and running your licensed copy of CS5.
    of course I have proof. Just look at their page of non-recommended distributions. If a distribution makes it possible to install non-free software it is not recommended. Just because it is possible. Gentoo makes it possible to filter licenses. So you can install only 'free' software. If you want. It also makes it possible to install non-free software. User choice, you know?
    And FSF hates them for that.

    Idiotic.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rallos Zek View Post
    Stallman again is right as ever.




    You Sir are either an idiot a troll, or an agent.
    You sir are either a troll or completely brainwashed.

    The FSF corrupted the terms 'free' and 'freedom'. And you fell for it. I am sorry for that but there might be help.

    I want to be free to do with MY computer what I WANT. That includes software that is 'evil' by FSF's agenda.
    In their perfect world, it would be impossible to do so. So they want to take away MY FREEDOM. I am sorry, but this people are like those 'revolutionaries' who behead everybody who critizeses them to 'protect free speech'.

  7. #47
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    RMS is just right on this. Yes, sometimes words from him or the FSF seem very strict and some efforts of them are a bit clumsy (the gifts for xmas suggestion list) but when they're right, they're just right. I avoid Ubunutu anyway but I know it is (was?) still a popular Distribution. That may have changed with Unity and their general behaviour, but this strange search function is another nail for the coffin. It actually tastes like this Windows software that always wants to install some ridiculous "toolbars" or Google Chrome or other stuff with it. They should have separated it all from the beginning, if there is a program called "find products on the Amazon marketplace" then it is okay cause it definitely tells you what it is and does. But having this half automated search in your normal "where did I put that darn file..." search just isn't desirable.
    And then it is even more routed via productsearch.ubuntu.com
    lulz.
    I mean, I would be really upset if somebody tried to sneak something like this into my file search.


    But thanks god I'm not on *buntu. It is just sad to see how they're going down the drain.

  8. #48
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    Stallman makes it sound more nefarious than it actually is.


    This is quite simply a way that canonical found to monetize linux.

    Their goal is to get revenue from what you buy AND NOT to spy or compile info on you.


    http://youtu.be/hwzG1n05p0I you can clearly see that it directs you to a canonical site where you are asked to logged in and then probably to amazon.




    NOW HERE'S WHERE I DRAW THE LINE:

    I like and use Chromium and it clearly nodges you and tries to get you to sign up to google services and for you to store all your information, from pictures to bookmarks in the cloud... I am now using everything from google drive to youtube WITH THE FULL KNOWLEDGE that it's google's cloud.

    Every file I have on google drive, every bookmark, every video on youtube, every map location, etc etc it can be easily accessed by google and whoever google gives access to (law enforcement, govs, hackers, who knows), they have my pictures/friend contacts/phone numbers/name/ip's etc etc they probably (100%sure) know more about me than the last girl I fucked.


    I know that's the price of admission and because I like their services I willingly sacrifice my privacy.


    What canonical is asking for is not my privacy tho, what they are asking for is "Hey we are going to open up a communication line from your system to ours"

    no, this is really bad... the reason I left windows after I got hacked and installed uber firewalls was seeing all those apps and system processes dialing home to God knows where... sending information and being controlled by whomever wherever.


    I'm sorry but NO, you can have all my shit but when I click sign out I expect to be signed out.

    I even disconnect the NTP time synchro thing do you think I'm ok with having such a security risk?

    I would use ubuntu if the wallpaper was an amzon ad or if it had ads or ANY other thing that didn't compromise system security... and don't tell me it's not a security rish, anything that can be exploited WILL be exploited.


    I know it can be turned off but there's the nagging feeling on your mind that somewhere deep inside the code there's a couple of added lines opening up ports and processes and shit.

    btw canonical if you're reading: I wouldn't mind PAYING for a linux distro (you can actually sell linux distros no probs) as long as it had a superior UI etc..

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBlackCat View Post
    I can't help but notice that all the people arguing that Stallman is a zealot (which I honestly can't disagree with), harmful, an enemy of freedom, an idiot, or whatnot have not bothered to explain why he is wrong in this particular case. As Churchill said, "The greatest lesson in life is to know that even fools are right sometimes". Just asserting that he is an idiot, crazy, irrelevant, harmful, or whatever (not that I agree he is) does not mean that he is wrong about Ubuntu containing spyware and adware.
    If somebody claims a program is spyware he have to PROVE it! Otherwise he is only proving he is an liar!!! It doesn't work in the contrary sense!!!
    The problem is that is very cheap to talk and harrass other people and make them to loose money, and because of that it is unfair!

    If anybody did like Stalkman he could probably say something like "I'm The Messiah" and that the rest of the world must prove he is wrong! An absolute nonsense!!!!

    Other statements that fit in that cathegory are:

    - Good and evil
    - UFOs
    - Drackula
    - ...
    - And of course ghosts and Stalkman

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonadow View Post
    [...]
    [...]
    Once again he has proven himself to be completely clueless to what most people WANT to do on their computers. People want software and application, not licenses.
    some of them also want that their OS doesn't send user data to third parties without them being notified about it.
    [...]
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonadow View Post
    Linux users complain about commercial software vendors not offering Linux versions of their software, and when said vendor actually takes the trouble to provide a Linux port, they get flamed because their software is not FOSS.
    a small minority of Linux users complains about proprietary software offered on Linux. This doesn't matter much.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonadow View Post
    Case in point:
    - AMD did not support Linux with binary blobs until recently. FOSS cried foul that Linux was not suppoted
    - AMD released buggy fglrx. FOSS cried foul that the drivers were subpar
    - AMD improved fglrx greatly. FOSS cried foul because the closed nature of fglrx prevented them from leaching code that could be used for the free Radeon driver
    - AMD released specifications for graphics chipsets. FOSS cried foul because those specifications were 'insufficient'...and they can't even get RadeonSI working properly after alll the noise they make
    Aha Free and open-source software cries. That's probably meant as joke.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonadow View Post
    [...]
    If the FOSS community is so capable, why can't they do everything without crying foul on how they cannot leech code from proprietary sources?[...]
    If FOSS developers leeched code from proprietary software, they would be sued for it. I'm not aware that the FOSS community ever cried about this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonadow View Post
    [...]
    Why did it take so long for FOSS to come out with GIMP [...]
    after the linux kernel was released it took 5 or 6 years until GIMP was released. Maybe they didn't work on it earlier, because their was more need for other things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonadow View Post
    A developer community which has no idea of what today's users actually need to do on a computer has no right to tell people what they should/should not do. Period.
    They may tell us whatever they want as long as it isn't against the laws.

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