10-18-2012, 08:51 PM
this is a legal issue - its most definitely good troll bait though :P
10-18-2012, 08:53 PM
This is actually a situation where GPL is indirectly restricting freedom, and the end result might be Nvidia ending up creating another non-free module.
10-18-2012, 08:55 PM
10-18-2012, 08:58 PM
Originally Posted by efikkan
it might restrict nvidias freedom to pervert the opengl specifications and dominate the gpu market but it in no way restricts my freedom
10-18-2012, 09:02 PM
Get your facts straight, Nvidia has the best OpenGL implementation and is in no way perverting the specifications.
Originally Posted by D0pamine
10-18-2012, 09:07 PM
wrong wrong wrong another lazy to read post
Originally Posted by RCL_
1.) PLZ READ THE MAILING LIST, alan cox is not stopping anything he is pointing out a legal conflict that need to be legally solved by lawyers
2.) Linux kernel devs need to get pragmatic part : NO what the hell ?? since you ovbiously don't know anything about hardware ill explain open documentation means document hardware entry points to be used by any software not the frigging electronic schematics and there is no way in hell to reverse engeneer the hardware schematics from a set of registers.
3.) R&D again NO intel/AMD/NVIDIA secret sauce is inside the silicon not the registers and GPU technologies are INDUSTRY STANDARDS open to anyone, there is no such thing as intel only secret sauce OpenGL that same applies to CPU X86 ASM is an STANDARD. all that means intel/AMD dont need to give me their CPU schematics to support X86/SIMD they just tell me XMM registers are x,y,z and take A,B as parameter so my compiler will know that when you ask to put data in XMM he will send A,B values to the register x,y,z instead of d,f,g which is for an AMD cpus, in the case of GPU is the same the docs provide an huge amount of registers that do certain things[inside the blackbox silicon] next i download the OpenGL standard and try to do what the standard asks getting creative in combine those registers in a way that do the asked by the standard fast enough
4.) nvidia cant open their current code not because of the blatanly wrong things you mentioned since their driver don't do anything magical or mythical but they have loads of external to nvidia code and probably unresolved patent issues that will be exposed for lawyers sue them for the next 20 years and many other legally complicated things.
so no open documentation won't damage them in any way at all in 90% of the gpu functions[UVD/VDPAU gpu parts require MPAA combo autorization or they loose the license but no because loss of R&D or internal secrets]
10-18-2012, 09:08 PM
who said nvidia has the best opengl implementation? on what are you basing this 'fact'?
Originally Posted by efikkan
oi michael ( is that his name? ) piglit comparisons! lets put this 'who's got the best opengl' question to bed plz
10-18-2012, 09:17 PM
I wonder what mr stallman thinks about this... after all if anyone should be deciding on bending the GPL it should be the original author
then again does he really need to be asked? i'm pretty sure he'll say 'fuck you nvidia' but in a nicer way ofcourse.... maybe he'll offer nvidia some of his toe jam
10-18-2012, 09:25 PM
My reply to "OSS is on the rise" guys:
I'm not seeing industry like that. Soon, we will need to jailbreak our PCs just to have a non-signed OS installed. Thanks God Microsoft was pressed hard enough to allow exception for x86 arch, but if x86 dies (and it is not certain that it will remain dominant by 2020), we will wake up in a world where EVERY device is locked by design. Oh, and ARM 64-bit processors feature "TrustZone" privilege level for those thinking that this is just a matter of getting BIOS reflashed.
As for GPL exceptions:
During its 20+ year history, GPL (v2+) proved to be very shaky ground to build upon. Unless you guys are posting using gNewSense you ARE relying on GPL exceptions in your day-to-day activities. There are valid reasons (be it patents, lawsuits or R&D costs) to keep the code hidden sometimes and rejecting them gets you nowhere.
10-18-2012, 09:29 PM
Originally Posted by RCL_
Well, that is one sided. "Wine" made windows games possible, we our self did it. Linux success doesn't have to do with Nvidia, and not even with closed games compatibility, but with more people waking up. Nobody makes the transition without sacrifice in mind. Microsoft, Ati, and Nvidia, made a cartel and both assisted Microsoft to create D3D and close all the games inside windows. Both companies are privileged. That is among others illegal to almost all countries. Its also illegal to pay someone to release games only for your platform (Microsoft, Sony). Anyway Nvidia's drivers are the best for compatibility and speed, but Intel's open source are better than AMD's closed ones, and soon will beat Nvidia's to, because that's the road of open source. Some times something starts with r600 driver and doesn't start with Catalyst. The only reason that Open Drivers (except Intel's) are slow, its because we can't target efficiently the hardware. That's AMD's and Nvidia's fault, not providing good a optimizer, or at least good LLVM back-ends. But its matter of time. In the mid time i decided not to use or sell another AMD or Nvidia hardware. I have drop Microsoft many years ago, AMD before two years, and now i drop Nvidia. Only Intel is acceptable for me now (or in the future with 40 cores cards), and maybe someone else if i see an alternative, like a commercial Loongson.