Why Mono Is Desirable For Linux

[XorEaxEax]

I'm a technologist. Hating corporations blindly just doesn't work for me. Hate on actions, and hate on technology.

Well I'd say the hate Microsoft recieves generally stems from their actions, they have a history of really poor conduct to say the least and are currently patent-trolling companies using Linux. I find the company despicable based upon it's actions and I understand anyone who refuse using any 'intellectual property' originating from Microsoft.

That Mono failed on the Linux desktop is therefore not surprising as there is generally no love lost between Linux users and Microsoft, that it failed on the Linux enterprise aswell (which is where it should have had it's best shot) shows how much Linux oriented companies trust Microsoft.

[o247492]

And my mine prints is as well, if I just wanted to know if it was there it would have been a one liner.

I didn't say that C was the best tool for every job. I write everything in Python first, and only re-write parts of it in C if I require high performance. If you want clear, concise, unbloated code, C# can't compete with Python.

Unlike .NET/Mono/Java, Python doesn't require a goofy runtime VM, compilers or anything, I can edit my *.py script and run it directly in the Python interpreter without having to first compile. Way simpler to use than managed languages, and even more powerful syntax than C# or Java.

[o247492]

Perhaps I can apologize for the accusations and bring you back to the several arguments you evaded previously. I apologize.

Don't back down. Many (most?) companies now do shady, covert propaganda on the internet by hiring PR companies to go troll the internet creating an illusion of support for their products.

One reason why this guy is an obvious shill is because most of the big-league Windows applications don't even use C#, they use C++. C#/.Net is mostly just for the corporate developers who aren't skilled enough to write real end-user applications like WinZip, PkZip, WinRar, CrapZip, iJustZippedYoMomma, etc... All of the plethora of proprietary crapware for Windows is mostly written in C++, or atleast the ones people actually use. Then there's the open source cross-over applications like Firefox, Chrome/Chromium, 7zip, etc... that are popular in Windows, which, you guessed it, are not written with .NET.

[o247492]

Well I'd say the hate Microsoft recieves generally stems from their actions, they have a history of really poor conduct to say the least and are currently patent-trolling companies using Linux. I find the company despicable based upon it's actions and I understand anyone who refuse using any 'intellectual property' originating from Microsoft.

That Mono failed on the Linux desktop is therefore not surprising as there is generally no love lost between Linux users and Microsoft, that it failed on the Linux enterprise aswell (which is where it should have had it's best shot) shows how much Linux oriented companies trust Microsoft.

This.

Microsoft doesn't dominate the desktop PC because they have better technology. They dominate because of a bunch of shady, back-room deals they've made, and the unholy Wintel alliance that is finally starting to crumble.

Conversely, Linux's domination of web servers, super computers, smart phones, device firmware and various other markets IS because they have better technology. Linux/UNIX have a one-tool-per-job philosophy, with no pressure to create a new, better, more bloated tool to sell you each year. All Microsoft can do is come up with bigger and more bloated features for even higher level languages that take you even further away from the CPU and memory, year after year. This is how all proprietary software dies, at some point it's such an unmanageable mess that they have to kill products and start over.

[directhex]

One reason why this guy is an obvious shill

So let's hear your formal accusation, and your proof.

[directhex]

Well I'd say the hate Microsoft recieves generally stems from their actions, they have a history of really poor conduct to say the least and are currently patent-trolling companies using Linux. I find the company despicable based upon it's actions and I understand anyone who refuse using any 'intellectual property' originating from Microsoft.

As I stated, Microsoft are too large to apply a single broad-strokes definition to. Patent bullshit? Clearly bad. Releasing hundreds of thousands of lines of code under GPL-compatible licenses, on the other hand, not so bad.

Similarly, Apple are both Patent bullshitters - and also the copyright holders and primary contributors to CUPS and Webkit. Are Apple good or evil? Answer: both, at the same time. Same for Microsoft. I look at specifics, not broad generalizations, and the specifics of the .NET folks within the company is "generally pretty friendly towards Free software, certainly by Microsoft standards"

That Mono failed on the Linux desktop is therefore not surprising as there is generally no love lost between Linux users and Microsoft, that it failed on the Linux enterprise aswell (which is where it should have had it's best shot) shows how much Linux oriented companies trust Microsoft.

Red Hat's refusal to ship didn't help. Refusal which I'm sure had nothing to do with any potential competition with Red Hat's own JBoss, I'm sure.

[XorEaxEax]

As I stated, Microsoft are too large to apply a single broad-strokes definition to. Patent bullshit? Clearly bad. Releasing hundreds of thousands of lines of code under GPL-compatible licenses, on the other hand, not so bad.

Similarly, Apple are both Patent bullshitters - and also the copyright holders and primary contributors to CUPS and Webkit. Are Apple good or evil? Answer: both, at the same time. Same for Microsoft. I look at specifics, not broad generalizations, and the specifics of the .NET folks within the company is "generally pretty friendly towards Free software, certainly by Microsoft standards"

In my opinion Apple open source only when it serves their own ends (as in when they feel they need help with development and don't see any competitive advantage whatsoever in keeping something closed), they are primarily a proprietary company employing lock-in tactics. CUPS was a mature open source printing solution which Apple bought because they needed one, webkit was forked off open source KHTML because they needed a web layout engine and has reached it's maturity as a result of lots of development being done apart from that coming from Apple.

But that is my 'opinion', overall I look at Microsoft and Apple and what 'good' and 'bad' I think they do and my conclusion is that they are both despicable companies, YMMV.

Red Hat's refusal to ship didn't help. Refusal which I'm sure had nothing to do with any potential competition with Red Hat's own JBoss, I'm sure.

Obviously Red Hat has had no interest in shipping Mono which was then Novell's (at the time trying to compete with Red Hat) trump card (or so they thought but it failed miserably), not only due to them supplying JBoss but also that it was patented Microsoft technology and given that Microsoft had chosen Novell SUSE to be their 'approved' Linux distribution complete with a joint patent agreement , Red Hat decision-makers would have had to have been insane to use anything originating from Microsoft, particularly with the not-so-secret Microsoft funding of the SCO-debacle fresh in memory.

The Linux enterprise said no thanks to Novell's offering of Microsoft patent agreement-covered 'tech', and that was that. When Attachmate later bought Novell they obviously found no value whatsoever in Mono. Now Mono has found a niche in mobile app cross-development it seems and I think that's great as Miguel obviously loves C# and I like seeing fellow programmers get to work on what they love.

[kazetsukai]

Hating corporations blindly just doesn't work for me. Hate on actions, and hate on technology. Hating on a company - especially one with almost a hundred thousand distinct employees - is over-simple and pointless.

You're blind if you don't see why there is apprehension in this community against Microsoft. If you don't see something so blatant and obvious, words are lost on you. One's actions represent who they are, and Microsoft's actions have brought them this.

Do I need to re-paste the list of companies which steer the .NET specification? The list you clearly ignored when I posted it last time?

• Eiffel Software
• Kahu Research
• Microsoft Corporation
• Novell Corporation
• Twin Roots
• Borland
• Fujitsu Software Corporation
• Hewlett-Packard
• Intel Corporation
• IBM Corporation
• IT University of Copenhagen
• Jagger Software Ltd.
• Monash University
• Netscape
• Phone.Com
• Plum Hall
• Sun Microsystems
• ActiveState
• CSK Corp.
• Jaggersoft (UK)
• Mountain View Compiler
• Pixo
• University of Canterbury (NZ)

Oh please. These corporations don't control what APIs are written and how they're exposed. They're not the drivers, they're the passengers. And Microsoft is the entity behind the wheel.

The only people I've *ever* seen moaning about API completeness in Mono are the anti-Mono cult. It's a red herring; an excuse.

In other words, I'm not alone. This stems from Mono being a secondary implementation, with .NET as the main, supported implementation. Q: Why doesn't Microsoft just bring Mono to feature parity, dump .NET as we know it, and develop that at the supported implementation?

So which platform support is the issue, exactly?

Anything not running Windows/.NET. You're either using APIs that happen to be implemented in Mono, or you're coding against .NET and only caring about Windows.

It is not in Microsoft's best interest for developers to more easily deploy to other platforms. The conflict of interest here is clear. Is it really all that unreasonable for developers to be wary of this?

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice...

[nullone]

pity of a "pure" technician

---I still don't see what on earth this has to do with Mono, other than tiresome redirection. "Windows has paid apps, and Microsoft makes .NET, therefore MONO IS TEH DEVILZ!"[/QUOTE]

Sorry to jump in, but I can not finish the reading since something which is so obvious is blind to you here.

It is simple: there is planty of good softwares on Linux and they are doing very well, there is no need to cry for mono of a ms background.

you, as a technician which shall have basic reasoning skills ot training, shall not mix mono with xxxzip, or think the others do so.

now I can continue reading.

[ciplogic]

Now the C# way:

void findFile(string filename, string directory)
{
	// Get list of files in the specific directory.
	string[] files = Directory.GetFiles(directory,"*.*",SearchOption.AllDirectories);
	If(files.Contains(filename))
	{
	    Console.WriteLine(files[files.Indexof(filename]);
	}
}

And my mine prints is as well, if I just wanted to know if it was there it would have been a one liner.

Here is the one liner: (I separate the condition on the second liner: (Linq & lambdas)

 
private static bool FindFile(string filename, string directory)
        {
            return Directory.GetFiles(directory, "*.*", SearchOption.AllDirectories)
                    .Any(file => new FileInfo(file).Name==filename);

        }