Originally posted by devius
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Ten Suggestions For The GNOME Camp
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Originally posted by smartysmart34 View PostIs it really that hard to keep a usage concept that actually works with primary and/or mouse only usage? Instead of actually improving usability devs start making fun out of users wishes. Year right. Best thing to do. Maybe that's one of the reasons why so many "free" (equals unpaid) developers loiter in open source projects. If one of our developers would slap a users face with such a comment ("hey retard, is it really that hard to use the friggin keyboard...") he'd be fired within hours. A perfect example for "Why I'm sick of developers mailing lists".
Regarding developer mailing lists: if you'd go to a mailing list I'm admin of, I'd probably have to remove you due to high usage of profanities.
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Originally posted by bkor View PostPretty sure the usage is limited to only describe men?
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Originally posted by smartysmart34 View PostIs it really that hard to keep a usage concept that actually works with primary and/or mouse only usage? Instead of actually improving usability devs start making fun out of users wishes. Year right. Best thing to do. Maybe that's one of the reasons why so many "free" (equals unpaid) developers loiter in open source projects. If one of our developers would slap a users face with such a comment ("hey retard, is it really that hard to use the friggin keyboard...") he'd be fired within hours. A perfect example for "Why I'm sick of developers mailing lists".
And it goes on. Making fun out of other peoples usage preferences. Guess what: I'm frequently sitting on the couch with my netbook while eating snacks with one hand and surfing the net or looking something up with the other hand using a touchpad. And I don't want to friggin use keys where there's no sane reason except for a moron developer saying "you shouldn't do that because I think you shouldn't. And therefore I made it cumbersome to do it.".
Who the fuck decided that Innovation nowadays means making things worse? And when we're done making usability go away we double our efforts to store every rubbish online. Just becasue Apple does it it must be right.
On another Mailing list they mentioned the other day that playing CD/DVD media physically (by inseting discs in a drive) is too 70s to further support. The moment Linux goes that far I can swith to an OS that actually has more experience in delivering crap. At least the software stack integrates well there.
Regards,
Martin
Let us be clear, I don't want to be a douche, laughing at other people just because they think different than me.
I never was a real Gnome user before Gnome 3, because frankly it didn't met my standards at that time.
Now, with its last iteration, I finally feel Gnome is going somewhere, integrating smart and innovating technologies, and at the same time allowing me, the user, to express my vision regarding the usability pattern I prefer. Gnome-Shell extensions are great and they can't be matched by the applets Gnome 2 offered, they simply can't.
With offering a basic base from which I can build upon the way I want Gnome-Shell gives me the functionality I always wanted from a DE - configurability. Now I know that the basic workflow has changed, big buttons instead of small ones, full-screen browsing instead of large-menus browsing, emphasis on search instead of the traditional point-and-click. And I understand that it could be difficult to change the way you operate your machine.
But think about it for a moment. So many people have embraced GS and Unity (just watch the last episode of LAS - you'll get a better picture)
Those people might like the new ways in which Gnome-Shell operates. And I'm inclined to believe that the majority of users, accepted, even if not every new feature introduced, and don't want to revert to the old way of doing things. And I'm also inclined to believe that the dissatisfied people are the vocal ones, because they fill alienated by the new direction their desktop has taken.
That's ok too. Not everybody thinks, feels or acts the same. We have different needs.
BUT!!!!!!!
You have to realise that this is not Windows, nor OS X.
The devs behind OSS Desktops are mostly unpaid. They do software development because they like it and want to do it.
AND, most importantly, they themselves are the primary user of their development. They take a direction because they want to, because that is the way they feel DE's should be used. About the 'devs don't listen to user argument'...I doesn't stand. Gnome is a community and communities are comprised of groups of people. The design decision must be taken as a result of a discussion, of a mutual consensus. I am not a part of Gnome development community, but I do follow Planet Gnome and I can see from the posts there that discussion is present before committing to a decision.
As OSS users you have the chance to participate in the process of developing your Desktop either by writing code or sending feature requests.
You can be against a feature and vocally express your desire.
What you shouldn't do is pretend you are the sole user of that DE and that your point of view is the only one that matters. That you know better than the actual devs.
More, when you are asked to state why you dislike so much the new design you come up with statements like: I don't like DE X because I'm too lazy to press a dam keyboard button, my eating habits suffer, or that I lose some precious pixels because of the new panel.
Just think about how silly those arguments are!!!
If you don't like the new Gnome-Shell you could always do that clever thing Lefavre did. Fork everything, in fact, fork the hell out of it.
Create your own Gnome-Shell, because, as always, single man Desktop environments are the way to go!!!
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I think the critical mistake with this survey is that it is GNOME centric. If this contained 25% data about other DEs, all of the information would get a whole lot more interesting.
I'm also willing to put some of my webdev skills to work here and make that survey app happen, its just not something I'd like to be specific to any DE, or even DEs for that matter. I'd like _anyone_: KDE (whole), AmaroK, Gnome, XFCE.... you name it, to be able to hook into an API where they can subscribe users to various feedback channels.
Lets take the AmaroK example: Categorize it with other "media players - Audio". The AmaroK team submits their own questions for their survey, but the end user sees all questions for media players (general) in addition to questions specific to/submitted by the AmaroK team. The AmaroK team then gets the benefit of feedback based on its media player in relation to other media players.
THIS is how you do a -survey system-, which is what Felipe was really suggesting (and was ignored) on the GNOME mailing lists... he just didn't have the vision to bring it outside of its original scope.
Worthwhile?
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Originally posted by Adrinnho View PostWhat you shouldn't do is pretend you are the sole user of that DE and that your point of view is the only one that matters. That you know better than the actual devs.
More, when you are asked to state why you dislike so much the new design you come up with statements like: I don't like DE X because I'm too lazy to press a dam keyboard button, my eating habits suffer, or that I lose some precious pixels because of the new panel.
And yes, belittling people for having slightly different computer use preferences qualifies as douche behavior. I personally think it's silly to type app names in order to start them, but I don't spend my time bashing those who prefer to do so.
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Originally posted by kazetsukai View PostTHIS is how you do a -survey system-, which is what Felipe was really suggesting (and was ignored) on the GNOME mailing lists... he just didn't have the vision to bring it outside of its original scope.
The difficulty was partly that e.g. we feared that any response would be 1) not accurately represent GNOME users (e.g. the million+ Spanish Extremadura users) and 2) that the outcome might be unusable, thus spewing more 'GNOME doesn't listen to users'.
I don't think the short list is very helpful for a developer (which I am not btw).
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Adrinnho, thank you for not taking my post personal and thank you for the reply. It makes your thoughts clearer to me.
Originally posted by Adrinnho View PostAnd I understand that it could be difficult to change the way you operate your machine.
Originally posted by Adrinnho View PostBut think about it for a moment. So many people have embraced GS and Unity (just watch the last episode of LAS - you'll get a better picture)
Those people might like the new ways in which Gnome-Shell operates. And I'm inclined to believe that the majority of users, accepted, even if not every new feature introduced, and don't want to revert to the old way of doing things.
That's ok too. Not everybody thinks, feels or acts the same. We have different needs.
But what is even more important: I do not want to have different DEs just because of these two usecases. And that's a pain in the ass.
Originally posted by Adrinnho View PostAND, most importantly, they themselves are the primary user of their development. They take a direction because they want to, because that is the way they feel DE's should be used.
Interesting enough, Linux only really works where there is a customer focused company taking their customers serious. Generally Smartphone manufacturers and producers of other embedded system, that hide the nature of linux and the developer community from their customers. And yes, in these cases it makes perfect sense to cut it down to what the device should do. But that's not necessarily true for a desktop pc.
Originally posted by Adrinnho View PostMore, when you are asked to state why you dislike so much the new design you come up with statements like: I don't like DE X because I'm too lazy to press a dam keyboard button, my eating habits suffer, or that I lose some precious pixels because of the new panel.
Just think about how silly those arguments are!!!
Originally posted by Adrinnho View PostIf you don't like the new Gnome-Shell you could always do that clever thing Lefavre did. Fork everything, in fact, fork the hell out of it.
Create your own Gnome-Shell, because, as always, single man Desktop environments are the way to go!!!
Don't get me wrong, I don't want to convince you of something. I just realise that many of the Linux-Projects do go down the wrong track - my opinion. Maybe I'll just stop upgrading and keep the old stuff. Vintage is cool anyway.
Regards,
Martin
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