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Thread: linux, the very weak system for gaming

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by kraftman View Post
    Since some time I do nothing. What I want is just to have fair comparisons. When comes to Valve there's Ubuntu (which is slower in 3D graphic compared to distributions which doesn't use compiz). Valve only modified L4D2 and helped with Ubuntu's graphic drivers. Canonical fixed few things in Unity or compiz.
    im doing math so writing nonsence on forums is a good way to stay sane

    so... all we need to make linux desktop a success is Valve

    on one side thats great, amazing even for linux as we all know most new PC's are sold for new games
    as an office OS linux has been good for years now, but office people like familiarity as it increases productivity and such
    (printing i read can be a problem there)

    another most common use (if not THE most common use) for a PC is internet, and everybody knows firefox
    only problem there is the filesystem is different, again unfamiliar
    but using home folder instead of desktop(you can use desktop too ofc, but its confusing since it is in the home folder) is plausible

    bit about linux and valve in the 3'rd question:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=BW5tn7NoRqo

    and about steam(and dim witted gamers):
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REC4x...layer_embedded

    i like valve for what they done, and people should be judged for what they do, but i have to agree with John that Valve is a company and a company rarely(if at all) does something for nothing

    valve has a long(relativly ofc) history of being open, fair and doing quality work
    i hope they stay that way and not stray away

    personally i dont care about linux user friendlyness and popularity since i like playing with the system when bored
    id like everyone to use it cuz debuging simple problems (like networking) is easier

    i also think linux desktop has come a long way since the last time i cared; open office(now libre office) has become stable and allot less resource hungry, DE's have become GUI'sh enough for people that dont want to/are too lazy to tipe(that means all, at least here in the non-english world) to use and configure

    but i dont like what ubuntu/fedora/etc are doing in going for touch friendly DE's, for me they(the DE's) are just unnecessary (i like the "press a button and all your windows are shown" thou)(then again maybe im just oldschool and dont like the future)

    i dont see why a GUI would use 300-400MB and 10% of my cpu just to show me some windows
    xfce does it with 80MB, almost no cpu time and has everything you need. Why isnt that default
    enlightenment uses even less and is customizable, even modular, so you can make it look/feel/act the way you want; you can even make some reasonable default and ship it with your distro

    a problem i seen from a friend i put fedora(xfce ofc) on he's lap is that program launchers confuse non-console people
    he's used to just right clicking on an exe->make shortcut on desktop
    while putting a command line in a launcher is allot more flexible, is it that hard to generate a launcher by right clicking an executable
    theres probably allot of small things like that, that are confusing for people that dont want to type to make things done
    but that are small problems in comparison to grafic drivers, wireless firmware and ofc "my game/program dosent work out of the box"

    on the plus side, installing things thru synaptic and such is great and more user friendly then windows(dont know about OSX)
    using linux with a reasonable DE(once all is set up) is more fluid then windows and has less if not none of those little annoying bugs like misbehaving windows, waiting for things to refresh to click them etc..
    also searching half an hour where to turn off the firewall or something else (i know security bla bla, but i and everybody i know turn it off cuz its annoying and makes false positives)
    linux also generally performs better(most games, as we all know, don't thou)

    did i mention anti-virus software?
    its an old topic, and i didnt use it with windows (i used brain to not click on weird things, worked almost always) but you can call it almost a standard on a windows PC×
    it comes installed with a lot of commercial PC's
    its always on, it uses memory cpu and disk
    and it makes me wonder if any windows benchmarks are done with an aggressive antivirus running in the background

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tweenk View Post
    Let's say there are N operating systems and M hardware manufacturers.

    You want each of M manufacturers to write a driver for N systems. For this, each of the M manufacturers must hire at least N specialist programmers (let's assume it's unlikely for a programmer to be proficient in dirver development on two systems simultaneously). In practice, they often hire non-specialists who write crappy drivers, or do not supply drivers for some of the N systems at all. Furthermore, because each manufacturer works in isolation, they cannot reuse code between similar devices from different manufacturers.

    If the each of the M hardware manufacturers instead releases documentation on what their damn hardware actually does, any competent programmer can write the driver for any of the N systems. This means that the operating system vendor or a group of volunteers can write the drivers for all M devices, exploiting all similarities between them to reduce the amount of work that needs to be done.

    Since typically M is much higher than N, in your scenario we require many more programmers - which are a scarce resource - to produce the same number of lower quality drivers.
    [H]ard forums time is it?

    dude the development argument has been lost a long time ago FLOSS is more secure and better written overall and for you to say that ....wait.... what exactly are you saying , you've actually translated shit into keyboard strokes - 10/10

    revdep-rebuild fixes all for me anyway being an elite gentoo-ist (yawn)

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by gens View Post
    a problem i seen from a friend i put fedora(xfce ofc) on he's lap is that program launchers confuse non-console people
    he's used to just right clicking on an exe->make shortcut on desktop
    while putting a command line in a launcher is allot more flexible, is it that hard to generate a launcher by right clicking an executable
    theres probably allot of small things like that, that are confusing for people that dont want to type to make things done
    but that are small problems in comparison to grafic drivers, wireless firmware and ofc "my game/program dosent work out of the box"
    Which program? The one installed by the distribution or a custom one from a third parties? "Make shortcut on desktop equivalent is make link. Also, a middle-click on that executable allows a creation of shortcut.
    For graphical drivers, as pointed out, Microsoft Windows system heavily relied on hardware manufacturers drivers. A plain Windows systems will not properly run a hardware accelerated videogames (hence the minimum requirement that you see on box or website), it is hardly out-of-box. Understand that most works done to optimize Windows systems that run desktop/laptops are done by vendors themselves, not Microsoft. Same for other devices including wireless.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by finalzone View Post
    Which program? The one installed by the distribution or a custom one from a third parties? "Make shortcut on desktop equivalent is make link. Also, a middle-click on that executable allows a creation of shortcut.
    For graphical drivers, as pointed out, Microsoft Windows system heavily relied on hardware manufacturers drivers. A plain Windows systems will not properly run a hardware accelerated videogames (hence the minimum requirement that you see on box or website), it is hardly out-of-box. Understand that most works done to optimize Windows systems that run desktop/laptops are done by vendors themselves, not Microsoft. Same for other devices including wireless.
    didnt know about middle clicking

    i put him launchers for a wine game and xchat

    windows have shipped before with grafics drivers that worked, although not as good as the right ones, good enough for most games

    and the friend knows how to install anything on windows, we been putting together computers for years
    but compiling stuff and "sudo mv" it is a bit out of hes league

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by gens View Post
    didnt know about middle clicking

    i put him launchers for a wine game and xchat

    windows have shipped before with grafics drivers that worked, although not as good as the right ones, good enough for most games

    and the friend knows how to install anything on windows, we been putting together computers for years
    but compiling stuff and "sudo mv" it is a bit out of hes league
    funny how a thread goes from abi breakage and api changes to sudo mv is too much brainpower

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by D0pamine View Post
    funny how a thread goes from abi breakage and api changes to sudo mv is too much brainpower
    funny i thought this thread is about user friendliness and well, gaming on linux

    for you it may not be too much brainpower to move a file to somewhere you dont have permission to write to
    but for people that have never seen a console, that dont know about file permissions, that dont know that mv is short for move, that dont even speak english etc...

    maybe you have too much dopamine in your brain, and its making you link together things that have no relationship to other things
    on the other hand it could make you good at modern art, try that instead of forums

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by gens View Post
    funny i thought this thread is about user friendliness and well, gaming on linux

    for you it may not be too much brainpower to move a file to somewhere you dont have permission to write to
    but for people that have never seen a console, that dont know about file permissions, that dont know that mv is short for move, that dont even speak english etc...

    maybe you have too much dopamine in your brain, and its making you link together things that have no relationship to other things
    on the other hand it could make you good at modern art, try that instead of forums

    I don't know what you want me or the community to do about mental shortcomings - the CLI is massively useful and if its all too technical for you or your friend you could use something like mint mate which even has a gui for mounting iso images ( really? mount -o loop /path/to/iso /path/to/mount/point ) i digress ... very modern art i know

    for me it it simple.. emerge <game> or <package>

    add user(s) to games group and play away

    and for games outside the portage tree follow instructions usually found in README - it'll usually install to ~/.local/share for eg

    if its a windows like operating system you're after then use windows - if its freedom you're after then use something free

    if you wish to learn a little bit of bash then i would suggest here http://mywiki.wooledge.org/BashGuide or google even if not move along - nothing to see here!

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by D0pamine View Post
    I don't know what you want me or the community to do about mental shortcomings - the CLI is massively useful and if its all too technical for you or your friend you could use something like mint mate which even has a gui for mounting iso images ( really? mount -o loop /path/to/iso /path/to/mount/point ) i digress ... very modern art i know

    for me it it simple.. emerge <game> or <package>

    add user(s) to games group and play away

    and for games outside the portage tree follow instructions usually found in README - it'll usually install to ~/.local/share for eg

    if its a windows like operating system you're after then use windows - if its freedom you're after then use something free

    if you wish to learn a little bit of bash then i would suggest here http://mywiki.wooledge.org/BashGuide or google even if not move along - nothing to see here!
    let me see you mount a .bin image like that

    modern ?
    basics of computing have been set in the times of valves and such (and im not talking about the company, nor a faucet)

    emerging things ?
    gentoo makes everyone feel like a hax0r to the point they ignore common sense

    by far the best bash tutorial i found was http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/li...x.html#101-103
    was another by some guy, i dont remember
    and ksh is the "serious" shell (ask any true unix zealot)

    dont take this the wrong way as i see you take most things but in exception to viewing the source code, what is it i can not do in windows ?
    i like linux because its simpler to do things

    just because you know how to write a simple shell script dosent make you an average user, an average user just wants firefox, office and games. Not programing
    programing(even scripting) is considered advanced computing


    personaly(and note i declared my personal opinion as personal, not as a fact) i dont like ubuntu nor mint as they limit what i can do (removing ctrl+alt+backspace from X? thats just dumb)

    i started disliking gentoo cuz of its users trolling how advanced they are(my apologies to exceptions)

    if you wanna be advanced, say and il give you BOOKS, every one over 300 pages long in small letters
    and when you loose your eyes then you can troll how awsome you are

    disclaimer i am not an advanced linux guru, just a bit more advanced then average, and probably more then my friend here D0pamine
    nor have i read any of those books, mostly i read the amd64 abi and that cuz i neede to know something, not much
    Last edited by gens; 08-26-2012 at 02:07 PM.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by gens View Post
    let me see you mount a .bin image like that

    modern ?
    basics of computing have been set in the times of valves and such (and im not talking about the company, nor a faucet)

    emerging things ?
    gentoo makes everyone feel like a hax0r to the point they ignore common sense

    by far the best bash tutorial i found was http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/li...x.html#101-103
    was another by some guy, i dont remember
    and ksh is the "serious" shell (ask any true unix zealot)

    dont take this the wrong way as i see you take most things but in exception to viewing the source code, what is it i can not do in windows ?
    i like linux because its simpler to do things

    just because you know how to write a simple shell script dosent make you an average user, an average user just wants firefox, office and games. Not programing
    programing(even scripting) is considered advanced computing


    personaly(and note i declared my personal opinion as personal, not as a fact) i dont like ubuntu nor mint as they limit what i can do (removing ctrl+alt+backspace from X? thats just dumb)

    i started disliking gentoo cuz of its users trolling how advanced they are(my apologies to exceptions)

    if you wanna be advanced, say and il give you BOOKS, every one over 300 pages long in small letters
    and when you loose your eyes then you can troll how awsome you are

    disclaimer i am not an advanced linux guru, just a bit more advanced then average, and probably more then my friend here D0pamine
    nor have i read any of those books, mostly i read the amd64 abi and that cuz i neede to know something, not much

    handbags at dawn?

    i never said gentoo was for the elite - well i did but in a sarcastic manner

    i'm not rising to the bait anyway, my point stands - use what you want

  10. #90
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    bait?

    i feel dirty just by replying to this

    point im trying to make is an old one that linux is still for "tehnical" people, but its getting really close to being really good for anybody
    and people like GUI's and find a console confusing if not frightening to use
    and that you need to know it good if something goes wrong
    and theres a lot more chance something will go wrong on linux(if you dont believe me try installing official radeon drivers on a couple of laptops, that is the most common problem(as i read nvidia aint far from it))

    now to let my feelings get in the way of objectiveness:

    you sir Dopamine should compare the quality of mine and your posts in this tread
    if you look closely you'l see mine are more objective and faaaaar less condescending(that is until you tainted my name with "you dont know shit" comments)
    if you dont like people drawing parallels with your nickname, dont choose something related to the brain, sex nor religion and similar things; especially if you dont know the meaning of it
    dont treat people like they dont know something just because you want to teach someone some new thing you learned, unless they say stuff that shows they want to know but dont understand
    and dont ever use localisms on an international forum, its just not nice

    oh, and learning disk ISO disk image standards just to mount some image is yours to learn, i did it a long time ago and found acetoneiso is much simpler and dosent require me to google "how to mount this tipe of image using console in linux" and such
    althou i like console stuff for their low requirements making them not in the way(i use over 3 console programs daily) they are rarely user friendly(at least to learn to use, user friendliness of console programs is debatable)


    good i almost finished my math, didnt wanna post here no more anyway
    Last edited by gens; 08-26-2012 at 06:45 PM.

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