id Software: Linux Hasn't Produced Positive Results

[kazetsukai]

Of course when you have ONE GUY doing the ports in an untimely fashion and not really officially supporting the client (Doom 3 wasn't advertized ANYWHERE, it was on an FTP server that was CONSTANTLY over capacity, etc), you're not going to get a great response from the community. They spent zero efforts advertising it and zero time appealing to gamers on Linux, are they really surprised?

Thanks for the Doom 3 source though, that is something I hope they continue doing... it drives forward open source game development.

Edit: Not to mention, they have no reliable metrics for how many people use the Linux version anyway! I remember buying the Windows version once the Linux client hit, and I just don't see them knowing I'm a Linux customer and NOT a Windows customer.

[AJSB]

I cursed JC, i'm NOT ashamed for it and i DON'T bow my head to NO ONE except my passed away Father and to my Mother (still alive, TG !) that put me in this World.

Passed actions mean NOTHING because precisely he's own actions to UNDERMINE LINUX gaming...(YES, you read right) ...for starters...

I would like to ask JC for hiding the freaking ETQW bin in such a way in their site that was a miracle to find it.

Did iD really advertised LINUX port ?

He complains about no profit from Linux ?!? F !!! How could he or iD profit if i had to buy the freaking WINDOWS DVD to install ETQW in Linux ?!?

If he had made DVD for Windows and for LINUX and LINUX sells were a flop, THEN YES, he could said so.

Otherwise, he CAN'T.

Did he really supported Linux gaming ?!? I really don't think that doing things like that count in a positive way for that goal.

AFAIC, he sold himself to MS, and/or who owns iD....and yes, he clearly is resentful that Valve is trying a shot at Linux...

[gamerk2]

More or less what I've been saying. People who want to game on linux already do, via WINE. So there is no point to wasting resources [Read: Cash] on making a native linux port, as most everyone who wants to purchase the game to run on linux already does. Hence, no extra sales and a lot of wasted cash.

WINE is the biggest disincentive to making native linux games. If you want native linux games from major developers, three things need to happen:

1) Linux needs to acquire enough market share for companies to see a potential profit
2) People actually need to purchase closed source software [I know for some, thats a big no-no]
3) WINE needs to go away

[AJSB]

More or less what I've been saying. People who want to game on linux already do, via WINE. So there is no point to wasting resources [Read: Cash] on making a native linux port, as most everyone who wants to purchase the game to run on linux already does. Hence, no extra sales and a lot of wasted cash.

WINE is the biggest disincentive to making native linux games. If you want native linux games from major developers, three things need to happen:

1) Linux needs to acquire enough market share for companies to see a potential profit
2) People actually need to purchase closed source software [I know for some, thats a big no-no]
3) WINE needs to go away

WINE never was an deinsentive to me play a native port of a game and i never had a problem to buy closed-source software...at least games...in fact, ONLY with games....quite opposite, if i have to use WINE to play under LINUX, i would:

1. Go back once and for all to Windows

or

2. Won't buy a game that is Windows-only.




WINE can NEVER be a good option:

1. Is COMPLETELY and DEFINITIVELY incompatible with PunkBuster.

2. There are chasing a solution to some compatibility ...when they found it, they will break 10 things that were working more or less right...

3. So many problems to make a game work in WINE that the best thing is each one has it's own WINE prefix....a waste of disk space.

4. There are things that simply can't be solved. in special graphical glitches..."black holes" in BF2 anyone ?

5. They won't give a shit any more as long as game reaches "Gold"....Company of Heroes DVD installer total failure , anyone ?
(CoH is gold because if you use Steam it installs...or if you C&P from a Windows install )

6. Performance hit....in some games 10-15% others simply crawl....

7. Mouse lag because the way they implemented mouse...

8. If it continues to have so many problems with Dx9 can't wait when the real work in Dx10 or Dx11 starts.




It simply is NOT an option to any serious gaming....


However, i don't agree that it has to go away...not because of games but because of "professional" apps that don't hAve an equivalent in LINUX , at least, till we have them....

[gilboa]

Fixed for you
Guys (TTimo, Zold) supporting Linux departed id.

You say tomato, I say tomahto.

AJSB,

Thus far, not many game development studio (make that one, ID) were willing to contribute AAA source code, just for the heck of it, to the community with near zero limitations.
Keep this attitude (not only you, of-course) and I can assure you that the number will remain zero.

Repeat after me: Nobody (not even JC) owes us *anything*. Period, end of sentence, EOF, push, commit. *

- Gilboa
* Once you understand this simple truth, you'll also realize that the community should work double hard to make the likes of nVidia, ATI and ID feel welcome, as opposed to kicking them in the balls for even trying. It's far, far easier to be EA and not give a shit, than to be ID, and get trashed for trying to contribute.

[CFWhitman]

Not in a Position to Know

John Carmack is simply not in a position to know whether there would be any return from Linux users. There are a number of factors that enter into this.

One is that Id Linux games never had first class installation support (not since the Quake III Loki game anyway, which I have, btw). I'm not even talking about ongoing support. I'm just talking about a reasonably straightforward installation in Linux.

Another related reason is that, since these games don't have a straightforward Linux installation, you have to buy the Windows version anyway, and they are OpenGL based, there's not much of any advantage in using the Linux version over playing the Windows version in Wine.

I haven't run QuakeLive, but I seem to remember hearing some complaints about how much of a pain it was to get going with it in Linux.

Desktop Linux usage seems to have about doubled since the last time Id came out with anything for Linux (wasn't it 2007?).

As someone who has both a Desura and Gameolith account, and who is willing to pay for games with decent entertainment content, I think that Linux users are perfectly willing to buy games. It's true that I'm rather unwilling to pay $500 for a Microsoft Office license when I can get LibreOffice, Abiword, Gnumeric, KOffice, etc. for free. I can make similar comparisons with other software, but the difference in price is generally outrageous, and it is not content based software. I say that this is hardly the same thing as being unwilling to pay $5 to $40 dollars for a good game.

Do people really think that Linux users who like to play games just go without playing games now? If you think they are unwilling to pay for them, then you are basically saying that either they aren't playing them at all, or else that they pirate games for Windows, game consoles, etc. If you seriously believe that Linux users are Linux users because they're cheap, but also that they are more willing to pirate software, then you are not making sense. If being cheap were the primary motivation to use Linux, but Linux users were perfectly content to pirate software, then why wouldn't they just pirate Windows instead of using Linux? Why would they bother to run Linux when most of the free software for Linux is available for Windows as well?

People who run Linux generally do so because they like it better than Windows, not just because it's cheaper.

You can make a much better argument that it's not worth supporting Linux gaming because the Linux users who really want to game are also running something else anyway. Though that is a better argument, I've got some news for you. The recent rise of decent independent game releases for Linux makes this nowhere near as necessary as it used to be. I don't bother to run Windows for games anymore. I play games that are available for Linux, with some, but not much, usage of Wine to play Windows games. I have Oil Rush, Bastion, Amnesia, Cave Story, etc. for Linux, and I still manage to have fun. More and more, if game developers want Linux users to buy games, they will have to start releasing Linux versions. Every year Linux support makes more sense, not less.

[kraftman]

"because not so long ago OS X was irrelevant till it got games. "

damn, I mean wtf ......... yep it was the games.

Damn right. They have some additional software before, but even then their market share was very low. Conclusion is simple: its market share grew, because of games.

After that comment it's best that I exit this discussion

This is the best you can do, because it seems you have some problems with realizing an obvious thing.

PS. why the consoles are so popular?

[kraftman]

just some bunch of crap

Thankfully kick starter prove you are very mistaken.

[kraftman]

* Once you understand this simple truth, you'll also realize that the community should work double hard to make the likes of nVidia, ATI and ID feel welcome, as opposed to kicking them in the balls for even trying. It's far, far easier to be EA and not give a shit, than to be ID, and get trashed for trying to contribute.

id was praised by Linux community and what they actually did? Showed us their middle finger. We didn't praise VALVe at all, but they prove to be the best thing that could ever happen to Linux.

[gamerk2]

id was praised by Linux community and what they actually did? Showed us their middle finger. We didn't praise VALVe at all, but they prove to be the best thing that could ever happen to Linux.

They haven't done anything yet. And lets see if it lasts for any length of time.