Nero CD/DVD Burning Software On Linux Is Dead

[1c3d0g]

Hmm...

...while I sympathize with you being unable to burn Blu-ray drives on Linux, the truth is optical media as a whole is a dying platform. It has been since a while now, if you haven't noticed, DeeKay. Even Ultrabooks don't come with any CD/DVD/Blu-ray drives anymore, as most people have moved on to digital downloads. It is only going to get worse for optical media from here. Open source developers are leaving CD/DVD/Blu-ray burning apps as well to hack on projects with more interesting/exciting road maps. I'm sorry and I know that this doesn't help you with your problem, but maybe you should concentrate your efforts on other areas of Linux which have shortcomings, because frankly most people just don't care about optical media anymore.

[RealNC]

And now it's gone, well done, lads!

What do you want? Buying something we don't need? It doesn't work that way.

If you want to blame someone, blame Nero. They stopped offering it.

[Kano]

@DeeKay

ImgBurn has much more interesting features than Nero Linux. Most likely the most advanced tool for that purpose.

[DeeKay]

Yeah right, always shoot the messenger....

XorEaxEax:

I'm not quite so sure "retarded" is the adjective you're looking for, neither is "moron" an apt description for me. Only if your task was to offend rather than actually reason and discuss, in that case: Well done, sir! ;-)

I will not let myself be dragged to this level though and continue to reason:

1) BD burners and Media have only come down in price quite recently for a broader audience to be attractive. And now that it is, Nero is not available anymore - so there's no Bluray-burning possible anymore in Linux. Ever heard the sentence "you don't know what you've got till it's gone"?

2) The reason why many people did not buy it is most likely that many people (such as many here and even Michael himself!) tell people that they don't need it because OSS burning tools do everything just as well - which is simply not true, so many people will be quite surprised and feel lied to when their next computer has a BD burner and they cannot burn Blurays!


As for "optical media being a dying platform" - Well, I've heard the talk many times before. Just like "Magnetic HDs will be dead within X years". Yawn. Apparently it's not dying quite as fast as people would like, with burners around 60 Euros now and one BD-R for 1,4 Euro (that's a Euro/GByte ratio that's unmatched by anything else!), and while it's still alive i damn well expect Linux to support it (again: this is a standard from 2003!). Also, Linux is *not* the OS where people say "we only serve you if your needs match 90% of all users"... Linux is the OS with the broadest hardware support for a good reason!
I'll continue to focus on this particular area like i have for 2.5 years now - simply because it's the most glaring and most unbelievable shortcoming of Linux I have ever seen! So we have all the latest and greatest USB3, GLSL shaders, 3D stuff etc - but we still cannot burn UDF 2.5! wtf?

And no, I won't blame Nero for stopping to offer it. Clearly, they stopped offering it because not enough people bought it. And for that see 1) & 2) further up above!

P.S: 20 more votes for my bug since yesterday! ;-) Thanks!

[XorEaxEax]

I'm not quite so sure "retarded" is the adjective you're looking for, neither is "moron" an apt description for me.

Ok, that was a stupid thing to say, but your comment was _really_ stupid.

BD burners and Media have only come down in price quite recently for a broader audience to be attractive. And now that it is, Nero is not available anymore - so there's no Bluray-burning possible anymore in Linux.

Again, obviously there was no demand for Nero on Linux, if this has to do with there not being any demand for Bluray burning or not I can't say (and maybe the price drop you described in Bluray burners and media reflect that lack of demand in overall terms), but it's obvious not enough Linux users wanted Nero for it to be deemed worthwhile for them to support the platform. This prompted you to whine about people not buying it because YOU wanted that support, I mean WTF? I don't have a Bluray burner, my DVD burning needs are fully met with existing Linux FOSS tools, why would I (or anyone else who has no need for it's features) pay for Nero?

Ever heard the sentence "you don't know what you've got till it's gone"?

Never knew it even existed for Linux, that's how much I will miss it. And no, I'm not going to buy a Blu-ray burner, so no future tears either.

so many people will be quite surprised and feel lied to when their next computer has a BD burner and they cannot burn Blurays!

Don't know 'how many' people will be surprised as you are the only one I've ever seen complaining about this. And from what I've read cdrtools supports blu-ray burning (atleast for backup purposes). But let's say it misses some features you deem absolutely necessary, urge the developers to add/fix them, perhaps even throwing them a carrot or two by donating some money towards them. If not, just continue using the Nero version you have, did it just stop working the day they decided to stop selling it for Linux?

So we have all the latest and greatest USB3, GLSL shaders, 3D stuff etc - but we still cannot burn UDF 2.5! wtf?

Conclusion, there is very little interest in burning a disc using UDF 2.5, as a result of there being very little interest in authoring blu-ray media discs on Linux/BSD.

[devius]

XorEaxEax:
I'm not quite so sure "retarded" is the adjective you're looking for, neither is "moron" an apt description for me. Only if your task was to offend rather than actually reason and discuss, in that case: Well done, sir! ;-)

I think you got the point. You musn't take insults in these forum too seriously though. Usually they can be translated to "My opinion is different from yours and I would explain it thoroughly, but since I'm not in the mood I'll just leave you with this random insult to see if you forget about the issue at hand".

1) BD burners and Media have only come down in price quite recently for a broader audience to be attractive.

If the audience was so attracted it would have bought them, instead of not buying them.

Ever heard the sentence "you don't know what you've got till it's gone"?

Yes, and you're right. I should have bought that cheap brand new copy of Super Metroid I saw at the supermarket when the SNES was already way past its time (I think it was around 1996). Who knew it would become so valuable these days... sigh...

2) The reason why many people did not buy it is most likely that many people tell people that they don't need it because OSS burning tools do everything just as well

If anyone felt the need to buy Nero or to find another solution they would have (like you did). If most people didn't it wasn't because they didn't know it existed. It's not like someone would buy an expensive piece of hardware because they thought it would be well supported and then upon finding out it isn't just let it collect dust.

so many people will be quite surprised and feel lied to when their next computer has a BD burner

Their next computer won't have a BD burner.

and while it's still alive i damn well expect Linux to support it (again: this is a standard from 2003!). Also, Linux is *not* the OS where people say "we only serve you if your needs match 90% of all users"... Linux is the OS with the broadest hardware support for a good reason!

It's also the OS of open source and collaboration. If you feel so strongly about this issue you should take it in your own hands and fix it. If you do that you can be sure everybody here will applaud you.

And no, I won't blame Nero for stopping to offer it. Clearly, they stopped offering it because not enough people bought it.

That doesn't make much sense. Clearly they have clients that bought the linux version so if they stop supporting it they will be abandoning a part of their client base. Not very friendly and it's something that was decided by the people that make Nero, so it's their responsability, not their clients' like you seem to imply.
That's a big problem whith proprietary software. You never know when support will end and you'll be left on your own. Besides, I'm sure dropping support for the linux version is just a measure to prevent more losses since the market for optical media is clearly diminishing.

[Kano]

@DeeKay

Why do you think missing udf 2.5 support is a k3b error? k3b is like any other FRONTEND only passing options to command line tools. If there is a tool that supports udf 2.5 then you could certainly use it. In theory you could even run imgburn via cli but i dont think that anybody needs another gui on top of it

[curaga]

one BD-R for 1,4 Euro (that's a Euro/GByte ratio that's unmatched by anything else!)

Saying eur/gb implies files and not media. In that case you won't give a rats ass about UDF and can burn using your favorite fs, be it ext2, squashfs, iso etc. Which works fine using foss tools.

[DeeKay]

Teh optical media must die!!!!

Ok, that was a stupid thing to say, but your comment was _really_ stupid.

You simply just cannot post without insulting the other guy, eh?

Again, obviously there was no demand for Nero on Linux, if this has to do with there not being any demand for Bluray burning or not I can't say (and maybe the price drop you described in Bluray burners and media reflect that lack of demand in overall terms), but it's obvious not enough Linux users wanted Nero for it to be deemed worthwhile for them to support the platform. This prompted you to whine about people not buying it because YOU wanted that support, I mean WTF? I don't have a Bluray burner, my DVD burning needs are fully met with existing Linux FOSS tools, why would I (or anyone else who has no need for it's features) pay for Nero?

Again: the "no demand" is in large parts due to a) BD burning being too expensive until about a year ago and b) many Linux-users telling people that K3B etc are just as good if not better than Nero!

I've been banging this drum for about 2 years now (see my bug report) - and I was one of the first people to actually author a Bluray fully under Linux, using predominantly OSS tools (plus TSmuxer plus Nero). Back then Burners were like 240 Euros and BD-Rs about 8 Euros. And when I look at the response I've gotten, it is clearly apparent that most of it has only been written rather recently, so there definately is a trend of more and more people burning (or rather TRYING to burn!) Blurays with Linux now that the price has gone down....

Never knew it even existed for Linux, that's how much I will miss it. And no, I'm not going to buy a Blu-ray burner, so no future tears either.

Oh, and as always in flamewars, your needs and desires are 100% representative for the population at large! 8)

Don't know 'how many' people will be surprised as you are the only one I've ever seen complaining about this.

This *may* be due to the fact that you personally don't care about optical media at all.... I also have never heard anyone complain about MySQL issues - but since databases are something i wouldn't ever touch with a 10-foot-pole, this is hardly surprising! <:-) I am however quite certain that there are a lot of complaints about MySQL....

And from what I've read cdrtools supports blu-ray burning (atleast for backup purposes). But let's say it misses some features you deem absolutely necessary,

It is not "some feature", UDF 2.5 is part of the Bluray-Specification! No PS3 (and many BD burners!) will ever accept anything Bluray or AVCHD that is not burned in UDF 2.5! And it is not *I* that deems this "absolutely necessary" - it's the Spec! And the makers of any BD-playing hardware! Are you seriously suggesting that ignoring a spec is the way to go?

urge the developers to add/fix them, perhaps even throwing them a carrot or two by donating some money towards them.

Hello? Did you read my bug report? I also tried emailing them btw, never got a single reply...

If not, just continue using the Nero version you have, did it just stop working the day they decided to stop selling it for Linux?

a) I'm not writing this for me personally, but because there's a major shortcoming in general that needs to be adressed
b) They stopped selling it from what I know, so people can simply not buy it anymore should they want to burn BDs.
c) I've heard reports that it doesn't work anymore in some current distros. Dunno if this is true, but if it is, then it is very worrying...

Conclusion, there is very little interest in burning a disc using UDF 2.5, as a result of there being very little interest in authoring blu-ray media discs on Linux/BSD.

Your conclusion. Not mine. Not the world in general.

Listen, if you don't care anymore for optical media - that's fine! I'm not forcing you to buy a BD burner and media!... I on the other hand enjoy having large capacity cheap optical media (did you hear they just introduced BD-XL with up to 128GB? Imagine this comes down to prices around 2 Euro - and I certainly don't see a valid reason why it shouldn't, it's still just Polycabonate plus some dye, like CDs or DVDs before it...), so why are you trying to force your preferences on me? You are actually *defending* a flawed outdated implementation of UDF in Linux, simply because *you* don't like optical media? Please take a step back and just look at what you're doing here!

[RealNC]

People don't need it, people don't buy it. Period. Deal with it. If you want to give money to Nero, please do so on your own. Pay them for 100.000 licenses or something. I will not give a single cent of my hard earned money for something I have absolutely zero use for.

You really want to blame someone else other than Nero? Then blame the ridiculous market share of Linux on the desktop and the reasons behind it.