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Thread: Proposal For Wayland With Virtual Terminals

  1. #1
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    Default Proposal For Wayland With Virtual Terminals

    Phoronix: Proposal For Wayland With Virtual Terminals

    The developer responsible for KMSCON and FBLOG is seeking comments on a proposed design for virtual terminals and multiple seats that relies upon Wayland as a system-wide compositor...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTEzMzI

  2. #2
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    As far as i understand it (not far enough obviously) the whole Ctrl-Alt+Fx will be a thing of the past once wayland lands and this behavior will be emulated or not used at all since we only need it when graphics fuck up (quite rare i think nowadays) and you don't have a gui.

    But why you involve wayland in something that will be useful in cases that graphics are not required.


    Could someone explain the whole thing in non technical terms??

  3. #3
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    since we only need it when graphics fuck up
    Or when you actually want to work in a terminal. We people still exist :P

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    Quote Originally Posted by curaga View Post
    Or when you actually want to work in a terminal. We people still exist :P
    I know there are crazy people among us

    [j/k]

  5. #5
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    So let me get this straight.... His proposed solution to this is YET ANOTHER COMPLEX LOW-LEVEL DAEMON DEPENDING ON HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF LINES OF CODE!?

    My comments: No. Go away. Stop.

    Seriously, where do these wet-behind-the-ears wackjobs even come from? It's extremely difficult to be even remotely polite when you're being marginalised by these half-assed, half-cocked complexifying solutions to things dreamed up by greenhorns.

    And I'm fed up with it.

  6. #6
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    Default Wet behind the ears?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wyatt View Post
    So let me get this straight.... His proposed solution to this is YET ANOTHER COMPLEX LOW-LEVEL DAEMON DEPENDING ON HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF LINES OF CODE!?

    My comments: No. Go away. Stop.

    Seriously, where do these wet-behind-the-ears wackjobs even come from?
    Well, the topic is still under discussion, so feel free to jump in and offer a better solution, since your obviously not "wet-behind-the-ears". And, I'm not extremely well informed on Wayland works, or even what the implications would be if they do make these changes, but I fail to see how your being marginalised. As far as I can tell, being "marginalised" is when your opinion is made less significant than it really is. But, you haven't let them know what your opinion is yet. There isn't a majority who agrees with you that are being ignored. It seems to be simply a case of people who have to make decisions aren't making the decisions you want them to. That's part of leadership, to make the decision you believe are right, regardless if they're popular or not.

    But, again, you are free to discuss the topic with them considering you are such an expert on the topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wyatt View Post
    It's extremely difficult to be even remotely polite when...
    It's extremely difficult to be even remotely polite because you are not a polite person. Don't pretend that the way you act is other people's fault.

  7. #7
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    When you get to the point of running it within wayland, you're already at the point where you might as well just fullscreen a bunch of gnome-terminals. The whole point of VT's is that they don't require a huge degree of complexity. For example, you don't need to have Xorg or wayland installed AT ALL.

    What happens when you're trying to update wayland with a custom u-hacked version and you goofed up one of your variables and cause it to crash before getting to a usable point?

    Right now we have a very powerful control over the user level, single user mode, multi-user mode, multi-user mode with Xorg. In a diagnostics situation, you need to be able to cut back on the complexity until you get to a point where you don't depend on the broken parts.

    In a server situation, you tend to run in multi-user non-graphical. Adding xorg/wayland/whatever, adds an overhead that you simply do not require.

    Right now, you can boot to a functional console with nothing but a kernel and initrd.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by droidhacker View Post
    When you get to the point of running it within wayland, you're already at the point where you might as well just fullscreen a bunch of gnome-terminals. The whole point of VT's is that they don't require a huge degree of complexity. For example, you don't need to have Xorg or wayland installed AT ALL.

    What happens when you're trying to update wayland with a custom u-hacked version and you goofed up one of your variables and cause it to crash before getting to a usable point?
    Then you fall back on the kernel console, which isn't going away.

    Quote Originally Posted by droidhacker View Post
    In a server situation, you tend to run in multi-user non-graphical. Adding xorg/wayland/whatever, adds an overhead that you simply do not require.
    In a server situation you're not multiplexing a physical keyboard, mouse, and display; VTs are entirely irrelevant.
    Quote Originally Posted by droidhacker View Post
    Right now, you can boot to a functional console with nothing but a kernel and initrd.
    And after this work, you'll be able to boot to a functional console with nothing but a kernel and initrd. Depending on what gets done, you might not be able to use Ctrl-Alt-F1-6 to switch to different VTs.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyatt View Post
    So let me get this straight.... His proposed solution to this is YET ANOTHER COMPLEX LOW-LEVEL DAEMON DEPENDING ON HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF LINES OF CODE!?

    My comments: No. Go away. Stop.

    Seriously, where do these wet-behind-the-ears wackjobs even come from? It's extremely difficult to be even remotely polite when you're being marginalised by these half-assed, half-cocked complexifying solutions to things dreamed up by greenhorns.

    And I'm fed up with it.
    Can't disagree here. Well, with the first line at least

  10. #10
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    With Herrmann communicating with Lennart, they came up with some ideas, including the use of Wayland as a system-wide compositor for handling all video input.
    As soon I saw that Lennart Poettering was involved I knew this was no good...

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