Enlightenment's EFL Gets Its Own Physics Library

[mirv]

Actually, for use in any battery constrained system, I've always seen "turn off fancy features" options. And if a menu system is going to degrade battery performance from 4 hours to 3 hours, then I'm pretty sure it's not going to gain traction in the mobile market.
There seems to be a complaint about an issue that doesn't exist. Really, chill, there's no problem here.

[89c51]

yes. it sets a precedent. hopefully pushes the envelope and inspires new ideas and directions. hopefully it makes designers happy and opens up doors for them. hopefully app and game authors have an easier time meeting requirements or coming up with cool stuff of their own. hopefully apps and a ui environment where it "feels more real" makes people more comfortable with their devices and they spend more time using them, enjoying them and getting stuff done. not everything is pure functionality. if it were people wouldn't wash their cars or polish them, or paint houses or put up wallpaper or have anything other that the cheapest plain wood furniture. people like beautiful things in general. they love the feel of an ergonomically designed armchair. the same way people like the feel of an app that responds fast AND gives them visual cues as to what is happening and why - and physics can help that a lot as it can indicate things behaving akin to real life objects, creating a connection for the user. it's up to the app writers and ui designers, theme designers etc. to make good use of it. we're just opening up the doors.

Raster the default theme (b&w) needs a bit of polish or a total revamp. I know there are only a few people in e but i believe its in the TODO list for the final release.

[log0]

the FIRST question i got from a developer about ephysics was "does it do 3d?". that's pretty telling.

Too bad nobody asked whether 3d physics is really needed I guess. So are there any ideas to expand upon current 3d support? Some glsl, deferred shading/lighting, dynamic shadow maps and ssao? Just curious.

[Ancurio]

Look. There's no problem with trying new things. We should not revert to monochrome bla blah and all that. What I am saying is that the desktop is just an interface to run your stuff and that interface should not take too much memory and cpu. If I want to play a game it's normal to hog all resources because the game is the end in itself. The interface to my programs is not though. Now I've seen bugs with compiz hugging 5% of cpu constantly and even worse. I don't want to dedicate 20% of my cpu time to a desktop with bullet that really needs to use cloth animation on everything (by the way cloth anymation is expensive when it comes to resources). I want to have the power all to myself and my applications that I run. Adding animations and everything to those apps because they look cool wastes cpu cycles.

Knowing how people are and the current trend in interfaces, it probably means that when somebody will use this bullet stuff then everybody will copy it and most probably there won't be a disable button. See where I'm going? It's nice and all but if I get from 4 hours of battery time to 3 I get mad. Having colors on the desktop does not really eat that much cpu. From a programmer perspective i find the idea cool. I understand why they tried it. But I also know that since UI programmers aren't really the most hardcore SIMD instrinsic functions users, they will probably abuse the Bullet library and use it in rather ineffiecient ways. All these add bloat to the systems. That is my problem. It may look cool but if I have a nice cloth animation when minimizing a window that jumps one of my cores to 100% for 2 seconds, it's wasted battery time.

Wow, now I am really curious to hear who exactly is forcing you to use an EFL desktop.
Are you sitting in a prison cell with an EFL laptop in front of you?

Oh, and of course you have a right to fu**** tell people what to do with their time. Because you pay them. Makes sense.

[mirv]

No one is forcing me of course. But look at how sheeple the developers are. When someone does something with their desktop everybody and their brother start implementing the same shit. Meaning we'll have cloth animation on all desktops in no time. Probably only lxde or xfce will still maintain little sanity and won't implement such nonsense but the rest of them surely will. This argument is getting old: Who is forcing you to use that desktop? This is like telling me to go fuck myself if I don't like it. Nice way to attract people to linux. Tell them come here and when they hate something well no one is forcing you go back to your fucking windows you loser! No wonder linux has less than 1%. With this attitude it deserves it!

The only attitude like that in this thread is coming from you.

[Larian]

No one is forcing me of course. But look at how sheeple the developers are. When someone does something with their desktop everybody and their brother start implementing the same shit. Meaning we'll have cloth animation on all desktops in no time. Probably only lxde or xfce will still maintain little sanity and won't implement such nonsense but the rest of them surely will. This argument is getting old: Who is forcing you to use that desktop? This is like telling me to go fuck myself if I don't like it. Nice way to attract people to linux. Tell them come here and when they hate something well no one is forcing you go back to your fucking windows you loser! No wonder linux has less than 1%. With this attitude it deserves it!

Well, dude, that's the point. Item X has features and item Y has a different set. You pick the one you like and go from there. I heard you say that you're afraid all of the developers, absolutely without exception, would implement physics and it would nuke your battery ... except for LXDE. Everybody but them. Oh, and XFCE. But probably most likely everybody else will do the sheeple thing. This is a slippery slope argument and I'm not sure whether it's fallacious - but it sure does have the proper tone for that.

Another thing, nobody is telling you to go fuck yourself (yet). This is absolutely a straw man fallacy (you are setting up an alternate, weaker argument and arguing against that rather than the original statement or sentiment). The thing that's greatest about Linux for me is that I get told "look at this thing we've got! You can use it if you want these features, or you can do something different if you don't." That's not running through my pundit-to-English dictionary as "go fuck yourself."

Further, why is it wrong for a developer to tell you that the next iteration of their software is going to have a feature you don't like (and may or may not be able to turn off), but it's perfectly acceptable for you to tell everyone else that they don't need and shouldn't have a feature they seem to want? Who's telling who to go fuck themselves?

[mirv]

Wow. He actually managed to get Godwin's Law into this. All over arguing about a problem that doesn't even exist. Where's Q when you need him? At least he puts in some interesting political discussions.

[Ancurio]

This is what I'm afraid of. New users will think linux sucks because some lousy UI programmers will abuse Bullet and slow everything down. It's like giving kids machine guns and telling them to be nice. The new users won't care about an explanation they'll just get rid of linux ASAP.

Well there's nothing we can do about that. You cannot force people to educate themselves.
You could create a fast distro with no effects, but then the same people will complain that Linux desktop
looks like crap compared to Aero.

Once again, what the EFL people do with EFL is their thing, they aren't obliged
to save Linux from an imaginary threat of a too small userbase,
and the same goes for GNOME, KDE etc. If you want something to change
in the FOSS world, you don't make posts in some forums, you go ahead and contribute.

[liam]

....you're either trolling, or have no idea what the purpose of EFL is. Given the tone of your words, my guess is trolling, but just in case it's not: EFL offers a wide range of support libraries for anything you can use on your desktop basically. That means gui widgets, media players, system control interfaces, the whole works. This includes desktop games, transition effects, splash screens, etc, all of which can use physics for various effects. Now considering who the "users" are here (the people paying money for these features) - this is what they want. They want fancy effects, and eye-catching gimmick goodies. And the EFL people generally like to have a nice, clean interface that's well coded - there's a reason Tizen is using EFL instead of gtk based windowing systems.

...or qt!

[zmike]

I wrote a physics module for E17. There's no speed difference, though it doesn't work great yet.

To the guy arguing with himself: it's mandatory, you can't disable it. If you don't have bullet installed, it pauses your X session, downloads bullet, compiles and installs it, then enables the physics module.