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Thread: NVIDIA Wants To Be A Better Linux Patron

  1. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnc View Post
    But again... what is the end game? What does opening up the specs get us? A better nouveau?
    It gives us the ability to use the hardware we bought on any cpu architecture we want, it gives us a driver which can be fully integrated/debugged/enhanced/updated to reflect kernel driver ABI changes by the kernel devs, and YES, a better Nouveau.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnc View Post
    Ok... a better nouveau is nice... and the kernel devs would be all smiles. But for an overwhelming majority of us NVIDIA end-customers, a better nouveau doesn't help us.
    Why not? It's amazing how far the Nouveau devs have gotten with nothing but black box reverse engineering, what makes you think they wouldn't be able to provide a driver(s) of superb quality if they had all the specifications which they now are painstakingly discovering through advanced guesswork? The Nouveau devs are obviously doing a fantastic job, enough even for NVidia to be interested in hiring them. I'm absolutely certain they would be able to provide a driver of rival quality with the full specs at their disposal, it's not as if there's some magic property in the word 'proprietary' even though you seem to think so.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnc View Post
    So NVIDIA would spend resources that ultimately would make kernel devs happier, extend an olive branch to the open source community, but in the end won't at all help those of us who forked over hundreds+ to buy their product. How is that fair to us?
    Why wouldn't a great Nouveau driver rivaling NVidia's proprietary driver not benefit those of us (like me) who has bought their hardware? I'm running Nouveau as we speak.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnc View Post
    What do the kernel devs intend to do to make Linux work better with binary blobs, for those of us who require them?
    Nothing, they will not lift a finger to help binary blobs as they should not, and the only reason you 'require' binary blobs is because NVidia refuses to open source their drivers or at the very least provide full specs. If you want an operating system for which proprietary drivers are the norm then just use Windows or OSX (and I don't think for a second you are even a Linux user so you are probably using one of them full-time already) or a free operating system which makes it easy for proprietary drivers like FreeBSD, OpenBSD on the other hand has an even harder stance on binary blobs than the Linux devs.

    Either that or simply contine to use the proprietary blob NVidia is supplying, not that it exists at all to cater for you as an desktop end user but it's available for you still. Just don't expect NVidia to provide anything directly aimed at the desktop/laptop space for Linux, they won't because they don't give a shit about the Linux end user desktop.

    So please johnc, you can stop trying to 'rally the troops' around providing a better situation for binary blob drivers on Linux, it's not going to happen (thankfully!), those few blobs that remain are the last of a dying breed. All I can say is good f***ing riddance, I want to be able to use the hardware I buy in any OS I like (which goes beyond Linux aswell) and not be artificially locked-in on certain platforms due to companies refusing to release the 'secret sauce' necessary to implement drivers which can be ported to any platform.

  2. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by XorEaxEax View Post
    It gives us the ability to use the hardware we bought on any cpu architecture we want, it gives us a driver which can be fully integrated/debugged/enhanced/updated to reflect kernel driver ABI changes by the kernel devs, and YES, a better Nouveau.


    Why not? It's amazing how far the Nouveau devs have gotten with nothing but black box reverse engineering, what makes you think they wouldn't be able to provide a driver(s) of superb quality if they had all the specifications which they now are painstakingly discovering through advanced guesswork? The Nouveau devs are obviously doing a fantastic job, enough even for NVidia to be interested in hiring them. I'm absolutely certain they would be able to provide a driver of rival quality with the full specs at their disposal, it's not as if there's some magic property in the word 'proprietary' even though you seem to think so.


    Why wouldn't a great Nouveau driver rivaling NVidia's proprietary driver not benefit those of us (like me) who has bought their hardware? I'm running Nouveau as we speak.


    Nothing, they will not lift a finger to help binary blobs as they should not, and the only reason you 'require' binary blobs is because NVidia refuses to open source their drivers or at the very least provide full specs. If you want an operating system for which proprietary drivers are the norm then just use Windows or OSX (and I don't think for a second you are even a Linux user so you are probably using one of them full-time already) or a free operating system which makes it easy for proprietary drivers like FreeBSD, OpenBSD on the other hand has an even harder stance on binary blobs than the Linux devs.

    Either that or simply contine to use the proprietary blob NVidia is supplying, not that it exists at all to cater for you as an desktop end user but it's available for you still. Just don't expect NVidia to provide anything directly aimed at the desktop/laptop space for Linux, they won't because they don't give a shit about the Linux end user desktop.

    So please johnc, you can stop trying to 'rally the troops' around providing a better situation for binary blob drivers on Linux, it's not going to happen (thankfully!), those few blobs that remain are the last of a dying breed. All I can say is good f***ing riddance, I want to be able to use the hardware I buy in any OS I like (which goes beyond Linux aswell) and not be artificially locked-in on certain platforms due to companies refusing to release the 'secret sauce' necessary to implement drivers which can be ported to any platform.
    lol.......

  3. #113
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    Snappy comeback... of course it's not as if you had any arguments to begin with.

  4. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by XorEaxEax View Post
    Snappy comeback... of course it's not as if you had any arguments to begin with.
    How do I argue with somebody who thinks he knows more than me which OS I'm currently running?

    It's not worth the time.

    If you ever get frustrated with nouveau, you can always switch over to the AMD open source driver. I'm sure it's on-par with Catalyst, if not better in every way.

  5. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnc View Post
    How do I argue with somebody who thinks he knows more than me which OS I'm currently running?
    Oh I'm not claiming 'I know' which OS you are running, I stated what I 'think' you are running, or rather what I don't 'think' you are running. Of course that had no impact on the discussion at hand so you could just ignore it and discuss the actual points but since you obviously have no arguments you chose to bring up this one-liner as an excuse to flee the discussion. Go ahead, it's not as if I expected you to come up with anything interesting in response anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnc View Post
    If you ever get frustrated with nouveau, you can always switch over to the AMD open source driver. I'm sure it's on-par with Catalyst, if not better in every way.
    The AMD open source driver won't run on my NVidia cards, obviously.

  6. #116
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    /offtopic
    I am interested in ARM for a personal Cloud server + tablet client solution.
    This KDE tablet is what I will go with as my first purchase in that arena:
    http://makeplaylive.com/ <- the Vivaldi 'Spark' KDE Tablet with open hardware (and reversed engineerd GPU)

    The server itself will be probably one of those China open Linux computers. There has to be an open NAS solution possible or I will go with AMD untill that's possible.

    The next desktop will be Windows + Linux combination in the form of an AMD Fusion laptop ('ultrabook AMD style'). Let's see if nVidia can get behind Gdev and it will be a regular AMD Fusion+GeForce or Intel Sandy Bitch(if open GPU)+GeForce. But I bet they won't.

    /ontopic
    I gave my ideas. The discussion is dead. I will conclude that I will buy nVidia hardware if it's opened up, by nVidia, combined with a consotrium based compute standard and Gdev, to serve as a non-DRM compute card. For as long as that is not the case, I will go with AMD. It's up to nVidia.
    Last edited by V!NCENT; 06-28-2012 at 04:27 AM.

  7. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnc View Post
    You can't discriminately lock out only the nvidia blob just because you don't like nvidia. You'd have to lock all blobs out or risk a lawsuit.
    I think Apple has shown pretty conclusively that you can lock out whoever you want, and the 3rd party devs/company can't do anything about it. If that kind of behavior was illegal there's a lot more money to be had going after Apple than Linux. Only MS would have trouble, because they are a monopoly (on the desktop market - they are also locking out developers on their ARM version of windows)

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