I dont see the difference to Windows here, if I install my father or my brother windows here, they are also not able to update it or make a backup or something like that, so I have to do that. Or I refuse then they make no backup or whatever ^^.
I dont understand your point here, I heard rumors about what you are telling but I do not see them here, if you mix widly kde/gnome/other apps you maybe have such problems. The only problem I have is that ubuntu not did go gnome-shell route but I think unity sucks, so I changed it also by my brother/father, even when I tried to install both but they changed then freely because unity seem to suck (more ^^). So there is no printer dialog when a print fails for some reason they cannot cancel a job the current workaround is to open browser localhost:9100 and use the cups-web-ui for that ^^, gratefully it happens not that fast.
But you point was that the dialog to print is different, I hear no complains about that, they even use features like duplex and stuff, they us basicly firefox/libreoffice and maybe a email-programm seems to be similiar enough to work good enough to not cause complains ^^.
But you point was that the dialog to print is different, I hear no complains about that, they even use features like duplex and stuff, they us basicly firefox/libreoffice and maybe a email-programm seems to be similiar enough to work good enough to not cause complains ^^.
Why does the user need to remember something like localhost:631 to make something work? Maybe you and I can use that, and even the other forum members, but that's not easy for a common user...
The dialog is different in almost every app... For example, libreoffice uses it's own dialog, inkscape have a different dialog, gnome apps use their own dialog, (non-gnome) gtk apps use their own dialog, kde apps use their own dialog, etc...
This kind of things confuse the common user... And there are already many bugreports: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=180051 https://bugreports.qt-project.org/browse/QTBUG-6239 (those are from kde and qt, but there also for gnome, and other apps).
I use duplex almost everyday... I had to find the correct config in forums and bugreports, because some options are incompatible between them and are not disabled automatically... That's only an example, there problems that I did not experienced, but bugreports exist for them...
The printers situation is only an example, there are other similar problems with webcams, scanners, etc... It's a problem of bad designed user interfaces not only drivers...
dont get that you mean ?hh proprietary (in 99% of the cases) graphics drivers? yes the gpl kernel is not made with the major goal to support such crap.
Nowadays there are lots of ways to do the same thing, that's not ok... We need at most two or three: one graphically and one in text mode, and maybe an extra (like web config) on cases where it is necessary.
You cannot say a distro that not takes money from you how they should do their stuff, to have 100 unstable distries does not hurt you can use one of the 5 stable ones. this 100 unstable use nerds that finds bugs and helps to make a stable experince for the others.
we need both, in a satelite is a linux from 1995 or so because then its 100% shure stable enough for such a device that when it hangs costs billions.
we have basicly 2 desktops I agree in that way that canonical sucks here to create a third one with no need to do. kde is basicly only for nerds, even some would say thats not true ^^. but its ok and I dont want to disallow xfce and co, its better, if I am in windows, I have nearly no way to make it better its there sucks and keeps sucking. I hate the feeling of it, it makes my brain stupid. I get lazy if I use it, because I am in a jail. The Noob only will see gnome (ok at the moment also unity that really stinks but kde/xfce and other is no issue, because a noob dont will see it till he used 100 hours linux or more.
But that's not the problem... I doesn't matter if the user has gnome o kde installed, the basic things should work in a common way without the need of desktop specific configurations or even hacks... We need a common place to configure and install software and also hardware...
Sometimes I enter to IRC to help other users, and I have to ask them if they use gnome, kde or other to help them, that's not ok... If there would be a common place, there would be good documentation of how to use it, and that would mean less trouble to do things.
common packaging system thats maybe a blog post from one devloper or so, dont see any distri go this way do you? Did I miss there something, do they even talk about such stuff (apart from the original blog poster)?
if they make a really good one, maybe, it will be hard for desktop users the users you think of its not important anyway, because they use software-installer-123 and install it if its deb files or rpm files or whatever he dont care. And then its a question of taste if you like more the software-center of ubuntu or more the less verbose software-installer of fedora.
if they make a really good one, maybe, it will be hard for desktop users the users you think of its not important anyway, because they use software-installer-123 and install it if its deb files or rpm files or whatever he dont care. And then its a question of taste if you like more the software-center of ubuntu or more the less verbose software-installer of fedora.
Look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AppStream
so yes here gnome does got stuff makes all stuff for his desktop... basicly its a full desktop, but most users prefer to use other browser/office suits, where is the problem for mozilla to create a gnome-printing interface and interface at all if its running under gnome? if blabla == gnome: use_interface_gnome() there i did it ^^
Fun beside gnome cannot reprogramm all software and even if they do distributors may ignore them.
Fun beside gnome cannot reprogramm all software and even if they do distributors may ignore them.
What in fedora seem to suck is that their doku seems not there, the wiki of fedora seems to suck if you compare it with that of ubuntu.
And at the moment Ubuntu is standard, mostly at least till it choose to build unity. what was a big big mistake.
And at the moment Ubuntu is standard, mostly at least till it choose to build unity. what was a big big mistake.
Linux operating system (major ones) is ready for average desktop users, the real problem is the political interference from the like of Microsoft (who went after the OEM daring to provide preinstalled Linux OS on machine right on retail shelves) and Apple resorting to patent lawsuits. Intel panicked when the original XO-1 become success when they made the Classmate, Microsoft extended Windows XP lifetime, when ASUS and others have their Linux netbook sold out, and force those retails pull out from shelves Linux machine like the ASUS fiasco with Microsoft VP aside. Yet you dare to say: "Linux is not ready for average desktop user".
When we accept that problems, the others will not be able to interfere with the Linux desktop expansion.
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