Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst ... 3456 LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 59

Thread: The Biggest Problem For A Linux PC Vendor

  1. #41
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Portugal
    Posts
    945

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by allquixotic View Post
    Even though this says it's the 2012 version, I think a tremendous number of these problems are already solved or are no longer applicable, for all intents and purposes. In other words they shouldn't even be "green"; they shouldn't be on the list at all.
    Just to add a few more "problems" on that list that are solved or incorrect:

    - AutoCAD/3D modeling equivalents: there are already two very good native CAD programs, BricsCAD and DraftSight. The first is closed-source and commercial but very very similar to AutoCAD, and the second is also closed-source but free and it's a little bit different from AutoCAD. Blender is absolutely brilliant, but it's not 3DS Max so it will require learning something new if the expectation is that it is 3DS Max. Also I suppose no one is born knowing how to use 3DS so there was a learning process in there as well.

    - Android is not Linux: Doh! Of course it isn't. Something like "Android is not Ubuntu" might be more appropriate, since Linux is only the kernel that sits in the middle of both Operating Systems.

    - It is perfectly possible to do serious graphic/photographic work on linux-based distros. I have been doing that for the past year perfectly fine.

    - The No Games part really cracks me up That whole paragraph seems to really be "Big companies don't port their latest titles to Linux, and I don't consider games older than 5 years as real games. Oh yeah, and I only consider something to be a game if it runs with wine, so all the native indie titles out there aren't games."

    - I won't bother commenting the "General Linux problems" because it has so many incorrect and false statements that it would take me a while.

    BTW, that page says it's not a Linux vs. Windows page, but in reality a lot of issues raised there are "Windows does this, Linux doesn't", like inability to run windows programs in linux... I can also come up with a list of programs that run in linux-based distros but not on windows :P The conclusion from reading that page is that whoever wrote it expects Linux-based distros to be just like Windows, and since they aren't he complaints mostly about the differences.
    Last edited by devius; 05-10-2012 at 08:32 AM.

  2. #42

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by devius View Post
    Just to add a few more "problems" on that list that are solved or incorrect:

    - AutoCAD/3D modeling equivalents: there are already two very good native CAD programs, BricsCAD and DraftSight. The first is closed-source and commercial but very very similar to AutoCAD, and the second is also closed-source but free and it's a little bit different from AutoCAD. Blender is absolutely brilliant, but it's not 3DS Max so it will require learning something new if the expectation is that it is 3DS Max. Also I suppose no one is born knowing how to use 3DS so there was a learning process in there as well.

    - Android is not Linux: Doh! Of course it isn't. Something like "Android is not Ubuntu" might be more appropriate, since Linux is only the kernel that sits in the middle of both Operating Systems.

    - It is perfectly possible to do serious graphic/photographic work on linux-based distros. I have been doing that for the past year perfectly fine.

    - The No Games part really cracks me up That whole paragraph seems to really be "Big companies don't port their latest titles to Linux, and I don't consider games older than 5 years as real games. Oh yeah, and I only consider something to be a game if it runs with wine, so all the native indie titles out there aren't games."

    - I won't bother commenting the "General Linux problems" because it has so many incorrect and false statements that it would take me a while.

    BTW, that page says it's not a Linux vs. Windows page, but in reality a lot of issues raised there are "Windows does this, Linux doesn't", like inability to run windows programs in linux... I can also come up with a list of programs that run in linux-based distros but not on windows :P The conclusion from reading that page is that whoever wrote it expects Linux-based distros to be just like Windows, and since they aren't he complaints mostly about the differences.
    OK let's comment upon your arguments:

    - I'm glad that other CAD solutions exist, but AutoCAD is by far the most popular and used one. It's de-facto for many applications and industries and there's no way you can avoid DWG in certain situations. Does it work under Linux? No. Will people try to install Linux just because for them it's all new and shiny? No.

    - Android is not Linux. Fine, you have just reiterated this.

    - Photoshop and Corel Painter are the two most used instruments amongst photographers in the world. You can argue ad infinitum that GIMP is usable, but GIMP offers a completely different workflow, lacks many crucial Photoshop features, and people just don't want to learn new instruments when there are the proven ones which work excellently (I don't even want to touch the topic of proprietary RAW formats support in Linux or lack of it - do you really think people will break their heads to make RAW files usable just because Linux costs $0? The OS cost is negligible for most people. Their professional instruments costs thousands of dollars and those instruments don't work in Linux).

    - It's difficult to realize for you but there are people different than you and such people want to play triple A games without too much hassle. They want to play their favorite games and absolutely most of them are not available natively for Linux.

    - "incorrect and false statements" - would you care to be more specific? Or your stance is, "I don't like what's written there so it's wrong"?


    Stop deluding yourself, people won't try Linux when basic things in Linux don't work or they are in a half-working state (sound robustness/hardware support/lack of consistency - Gnome3/Unity f*ck ups just to name a few).
    Last edited by birdie; 05-10-2012 at 09:29 AM.

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Linuxland
    Posts
    5,269

    Default

    I have to agree with the others. It is not the fault of Linux that AutoCAD, Photoshop, Painter are not on linux, it's the fault of Autodesk, Adobe, and Corel.

  4. #44

    Default

    Artem as expected give answers only for most easy question.

  5. #45

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by curaga View Post
    I have to agree with the others. It is not the fault of Linux that AutoCAD, Photoshop, Painter are not on linux, it's the fault of Autodesk, Adobe, and Corel.
    Does it matter whose fault it is since people just want to work with their OS? I really cannot understand why people always want to find someone to blame for.

    Do you know why ISVs shun Linux? That's because Linux is the area of total instability and lack of any guarantees in regard to APIs and libraries versions. And that's where Linux sucks. Strangely RedHat with their RHEL does understand that.

    So, instead of changing development policy people keep on shouting out loud that it's not Linux, it's ISPs that don't want to release drivers/software for Linux. They really don't want to, because they don't want to employ dozens of programmers just to make sure their software keeps working years after its initial release date. ISVs cannot afford such luxury (in fact they can, but they don't want to make the money fly). In Windows, once released, you are pretty much guaranteed that your application will work for at least 6-10 years.

    So, don't blindly agree with others. Start thinking. Of course, it's extremely difficult to argue when you are surrounded by fanatics and zealots.

    Quote Originally Posted by RussianNeuroMancer View Post
    Artem as expected give answers only for most easy question.
    Reason with me, instead of uttering something totally disconnected with the topic of our conversation, and I'll likely comment upon.
    Last edited by birdie; 05-10-2012 at 10:17 AM.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Portugal
    Posts
    945

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by birdie View Post
    - I'm glad that other CAD solutions exist, but AutoCAD is by far the most popular and used one. It's de-facto for many applications and industries and there's no way you can avoid DWG in certain situations. Does it work under Linux? No. Will people try to install Linux just because for them it's all new and shiny? No.
    Ok... let me rephrase that as apparently I wasn't clear enough. The alternatives to AutoCAD that are compatible with linux (BricsCAD and Draftsight) are 100% compatible with the DWG2010 file format(the latest version). That means they can read and write to that format and the files can be opened in AutoCAD. In fact, 99% of commands use exactly the same names in these programs, so if you know how to use AutoCAD you know how to use any of those two programs. They are an almost perfect replacement. I already did some architecture projects on BricsCAD and a friend of mine uses Draftsight regularly and never complained about it not being AutoCAD.

    Quote Originally Posted by birdie View Post
    - Android is not Linux. Fine, you have just reiterated this.
    You were the one comparing a kernel to a full-blown operating system. Of course they aren't the same thing. But Android does use Linux (which is a kernel and not an operating system), so Linux really is in millions of phones right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by birdie View Post
    - Photoshop and Corel Painter are the two most used instruments amongst photographers in the world. You can argue ad infinitum that GIMP is usable, but GIMP offers a completely different workflow, lacks many crucial Photoshop features, and people just don't want to learn new instruments when there are the proven ones which work excellently (I don't even want to touch the topic of proprietary RAW formats support in Linux or lack of it - do you really think people will break their heads to make RAW files usable just because Linux costs $0? The OS cost is negligible for most people. Their professional instruments costs thousands of dollars and those instruments don't work in Linux).
    So it's OK to learn Photoshop, but god forbid that anyone even thinks of learning a new program? Once you learn Photoshop that's it? No need to ever learn how to use a new image manipulation program ever again? Or are people born knowing how to use Photoshop? And I wasn't talking about GIMP alone, but all the other wonderful free tools out there like Hugin (works on windows too, so you should like it), Digikam, UFRaw... Granted I only use Canon cameras (up until now), but I never had any problems with RAW support in any linux compatible photo processing tool.

    Quote Originally Posted by birdie View Post
    - It's difficult to realize for you but there are people different than you and such people want to play triple A games without too much hassle. They want to play their favorite games and absolutely most of them are not available natively for Linux.
    No, I have no problems realizing that there people who like all the new blockbuster games out there, but that article says that there aren't any games. That's not true. There are lots of games, just maybe not the ones the author of that article likes because they're not K00l. I could also say that the Nintendo VirtualBoy has no games, but that wouldn't be true. It has 21 games and they all suck, but it has games.

    Quote Originally Posted by birdie View Post
    Stop deluding yourself, people won't try Linux when basic things in Linux don't work or they are in a half-working state (sound robustness/hardware support/lack of consistency - Gnome3/Unity f*ck ups just to name a few).
    What do I care if people try linux or not? That's their business not mine. - Closed as: Works For Me.

  7. #47

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by birdie View Post
    Reason with me, instead of uttering something totally disconnected with the topic of our conversation, and I'll likely comment upon.
    "I can stand for everything that's written there" is not my words, it's yours. Just another your lie, nothing new here.

  8. #48

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RussianNeuroMancer View Post
    "I can stand for everything that's written there" is not my words, it's yours. Just another your lie, nothing new here.
    You see - instead of reasoning you are getting personal. That's why I have no desire to discuss this topic with you.

  9. #49

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by birdie View Post
    You see - instead of reasoning you are getting personal. That's why I have no desire to discuss this topic with you.
    Bullshit, you ignore inconvenient questions - nothing personal, just a fact.

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Linuxland
    Posts
    5,269

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by birdie View Post
    Does it matter whose fault it is since people just want to work with their OS? I really cannot understand why people always want to find someone to blame for.
    Implying you're not?

    Do you know why ISVs shun Linux? That's because Linux is the area of total instability and lack of any guarantees in regard to APIs and libraries versions. And that's where Linux sucks. Strangely RedHat with their RHEL does understand that.

    So, instead of changing development policy people keep on shouting out loud that it's not Linux, it's ISPs that don't want to release drivers/software for Linux. They really don't want to, because they don't want to employ dozens of programmers just to make sure their software keeps working years after its initial release date. ISVs cannot afford such luxury (in fact they can, but they don't want to make the money fly). In Windows, once released, you are pretty much guaranteed that your application will work for at least 6-10 years.
    You really should take a look at the Mac. They have forced deprecations of APIs every few years, and it's bitten at least Adobe hard. I'm willing to wager that it takes only one person, part-time, to keep a linux build going. Whereas the Carbon/Cocoa transition (latest big switch) forced them to rewrite a big part of their UI layer.

    Yet Photoshop continues to be available on OS X. Is it because it's easier to keep running on the platform? Hell no. It's because Adobe wants it there, costs be damned as long as there's enough profit.


    If we're going to compare this to linux, in the same situation they would just ship their own copy of the toolkit, and ignore say gtk3.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •