05-28-2013, 06:52 AM
Except that many things demand high clock, so without proprietary dynclocking done right, radeon users are forced to either accept slow response times and scrolling rates or have high temperature/power load.
Originally Posted by 0xBADCODE
It feels like there are hands, feet and body; yet the whole thing is dead as users are forced to animate the parts manually.
Can you elaborate on this please?
Originally Posted by elanthis
Last edited by brosis; 05-28-2013 at 06:54 AM.
05-28-2013, 07:11 AM
yes, yes it would be nice when this powermanagement patches would come soon. I think they will at least release something in this direction in the next kernel. I mean what else... they cant say kernel 3.11 is coming 0 new amd improvements.
But I dont see it so bad, ok if you have a normal system with a dont know hd 5850 grafics card it may suck that you need on idle maybe 30 more watts or maybe even 50 Watts, and not only the costs for it, but also the more heating and that the card gets noisier because of bad fancontrol maybe, but I think you can tune that fan?
So but someone mentiened here apus, maybe this person meant the bigger apus, but for zacate I can say it needs around 25 Watt and there is no big difference if you use it under windows or with the free driver in linux. So even if you let this box run around the clock and it needs 5 watts more, its only around 10-20 Bucks per year.
With my zacate laptop I dont know did not compare times... but it holds several hours more than 4 at least, so I consider it as pretty normal.
Maybe I plug it later on my power-messure thing, and look around it have a newer arch on it, so I did not yet activily tweek it not even the low profile... so it could be maybe better but I am not using it tooo much off power so battery time does not even matter that much.
05-28-2013, 07:48 AM
WANTED TO EDIT LAST POST HERE WHAT I WANTED TO ADD:
But show me a real alternative tahts less than 100 bucks more expensive from intel that has some uvd-stuff in it? and is comparable to something like a zacate. And yes UVD matters.
So as example if I use a price database click ITX + intel hd graphics + 1x GB LAN what do we get -> http://geizhals.de/?cat=mbson&xf=522...raphics#xf_top
integrierte CPU: Intel Celeron 847, 2x 1.10GHz that thing cant encode 1080p without uvd I am not even shure if its 720p capable.
So I looked it up, this celeron look in benchmarks good against a way older Zacate E350, but as far as I understand it, it cant decode videos over gpu.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compari...xth_generation (Hardware accelleration NO NO)
So it misses pretty much the point of that hardware class.
thats the only cpu + board together combi that can ahrdware decode video... but it costs more than double the price than a zacate. Even if you spare some power with it, you would need 20 years or so to get back the more money paid.
So it would be maybe a option to build something yourself, buy a Intel Core i3-2120 buy a cheap board and you can have such yATX board+cpu for around 150 Euro.
But this cpu has a tdp of 65W vs zacates 17W. So I dont think its really comparable than you need a real internal power supply vs a external than often comes with a itx-case. So I think still zacate is a good option, but of course next gen stuff is coming. Jaguar and co...
05-28-2013, 07:26 PM
Today, I experiment my Graphic cards UVD feature. Hey, virtually, there is no CPU usage on h264 videos!
But when I try 1080p movie. It sucks! Due "low" clock of the GPU, it cannot decode the movie.
Solution? Increasing the GPU power profile and try to watch movie with a noisy fan sound!
No thanks. I am happy with my silent CPU decoding!
So this is a simple example WHY power management is more important than anything like OpenCL, UVD or 3D speed optimizations etc...
I am waiting for haswell CPUs. It might be pricey but consume %50 less power on active, 200x low on idle means no fan - real silent system is easy thing to do with help of SSD offcourse.
I am AMD fan since my K6 CPU. I don't buy Intel chip for my desktop from that time to now (~13 years?).
But time shows that Intel has "powerful" advantage over AMD right now. Both in HW and their open source SW.
05-28-2013, 08:00 PM
that depends on your System, thats maybe true for your system but for my system the opposite is true. I use several Zacate systems, I am not even able to watch 1080p (maybe in some bitrates but for most its definatly true) over cpu, and I am not even shure if zacate gpu is supposed to be underclocked, but it doesnt matter that much at least.
Originally Posted by Death Knight
Its basicly a big passive heatpipe thing on that APU, and there is a small fan on top of it, that is set by the potentiometer just that it runs. so that it not slowly get hot. it has 18 or 25W tdp.
And I basicly switched first from gstreamer totem to mplayer because gstreamer used more cpu so even 720p ate like 150% (2 cores) cpu. and then because its still kind of slow AND I want a bit keyboard-friednlier environment and a faster one, I even switched away at the moment from gnome-shell to a tiling-based WM (Awesome WM).
If you talk on highend you are right... on the driver site, I dont much agree, you compare a amd dedicated grafic card with a intel apu or intel onboard chip. thats no fair compartion. Of course it depends a bit what you need, but if you dont need a gaming pc you dont need a graphics CARD.
Originally Posted by Death Knight
So if you let out grafic cards because intel sells no graphic cards... I dont see here intel ahead. most of the time you just pay more money somethimes extremly more money. (50 euro for zacate with uvd, and 250,- euro for first intel hw decoding capable system)
Of course its then a Intel Core I3 and way faster than a zacate but you have 65W tdp vs 17 or 25W tdp of a zacate.
And then you could compare it to a bigger I3 range amd system, you get from amd a 65W tdp trinity or richland system for 70 Euro, the intel system costs: 130,- Euro.
What I am trying to say is you compare appels with other fruits ^^. You cant compare AMD discrete Grafics card system vs Intel APU
compare AMD Apu vs Intel Apu
and you cant compare a intel product that comes maybe soon out with current amd products. because amd cpus comes out soon too. As example there is coming Jaguar socs which are basicly quadcore zacate ~ double so fast than a zacate, with 15W tdp.
Only a example... I dont say Intel is always the wrong choice I just say if you dont look at highend octa-core high cpu-power systems, most of the time amd has something similar for way less money. and if only the gpu part is a problem, I dont think it matters much if you buy a intel apu or amd apu.
As example you say taht the fan noise is a problem, thats because most graphic cards have a small fan for a 200-400Watt tdp chip. But this apus have 15-25W TDP CPU and gpu, and there is a bigger fan or heatthing on it. So it does not matter...
Again if you compare all stuff and it makes really sense go and buy a intel system.
But in my opinion Intel is only better in highend stuff, and even there in some cases you pay more per buck, its basicly nearly on each product line the same, maybe amd flopped on some tests at the beginning but then amd had to lower the prices very much... so even that "bad" cpus namely bulldozers are not that bad.
So if you really need such 8core System now (haswell) and you have the money, go for it then, because amds steamroller comes out later this year, but are this haswell cpus also apus? Or do you want to use a mainbaord with intel igp?
But still I dont see prices. to say something about a system I need a price, because you cant compare stuff good without prices. you can say it saves you money because it uses less power, but if it costs 200 bucks more, you maybe have to use it 5 or more years more to get that money back.
So I would not fixate me to something without knowing the price except you need every little bit of cpu power and price does not matter at all ^^
Last edited by blackiwid; 05-28-2013 at 08:18 PM.
06-26-2013, 10:28 AM
Alex Deucher has pushed the new PM-code in his git-repo in the drm-next-3.11-wip branch. New microcode is also needed. I can say, it works really good here.
06-26-2013, 11:03 AM
06-28-2013, 03:27 PM
Now, I can start to see lower power bills for my 7/24 machine.
Thank you Alex for this.