Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Qualcomm Calls To "Kill All Proprietary Drivers For Good"

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #21
    Originally posted by accumulator View Post
    Not pointless, it might actually be _essential_.. Apart from the technical benefits of either choice, a shader based decoder might open itself up for legal attacks. Since you basically define the decoding in software (shaders), then transfer those to the hardware, a lawyer might reason that the software is in violation of a patent. If instead UVD is used, the actual decoding algorithm is in hardware, which I suppose is licensed for the decoding..
    Think a little out of the box here; there are so much patents out there that you can only be certain of one thing: you're violating anyway. Period. You can't do software without patenting yourself and have a Cold-patent-War with everyone out there.

    But as long as you don't investigate into what you're violating; pleasible deniability (the internal reviews are for patents and IP that you know of, which can be proven you can know about it, like in this case the HDMI crap you've licensed). You'll just adress the problem immediately once it surfaces. Also you can't sue before giving a warning to the offending party to try the fix the violation first ("I really didn't want to steal someone's invention, and we realy wanted to fix this because we didn't know, but they didn't let us know what we were violating thus we couldn't fix the problem" Judge:"Case closed motherfucker").

    Just fscking do it and deal with problems later.

    PS VP8 and WebM are better than MPEG anyway in all kinds of ways.
    Last edited by V!NCENT; 30 March 2012, 06:56 AM.

    Comment


    • #22
      Originally posted by plonoma View Post
      Drivers on themselves have no value. The value is in being able to control hardware.
      I really like the idea of open sourcing drivers because many companies just abandon old things without support or anything. Sometimes not even stable, usable drivers!!! With Open Source drivers the community could adapt things to new platforms very easily.
      It's not just that they have no value - they are a cost and a liability.

      Given some of the stuff i've seen on the rhombus-tech mailing list, this sort of thing is probably one of the few chances the non-chinese tech has left as a market differentiator/possible competitive advantage.

      Comment


      • #23
        One problem with opening up drivers (and, by extension, firmware) is that companies really like the ability to take a single piece of hardware and turn it into multiple products by simply plugging in different blobs. In the most egregious cases, this is done by starting with a "professional" version of the product and simply disabling features until marketing is convinced that their professional/deep-pocketed customers won't be willing to buy the result. The people who do this view it as a huge competitive advantage -- they're able to develop two (or more) products for different market segments while paying close to the NRE costs of one product. So for open drivers/firmware to take off in this context, it has to not simply offer an advantage, but offer an obviously greater advantage than software-implemented differentiation.

        Comment


        • #24
          Originally posted by notzed View Post
          It's not just that they have no value - they are a cost and a liability.
          And every vendor out there is trying real hard to minimize cost and liability as much as physically possible in order to maximize his profit, which is exactly why resulting blobs of proprietary crap and customer support suck so unbelievably hard.

          Originally posted by Ex-Cyber View Post
          One problem with opening up drivers (and, by extension, firmware) is that companies really like the ability to take a single piece of hardware and turn it into multiple products by simply plugging in different blobs. In the most egregious cases, this is done by starting with a "professional" version of the product and simply disabling features until marketing is convinced that their professional/deep-pocketed customers won't be willing to buy the result.
          Yet another perfectly valid reason to just "love" all those inherently treacherous blobs of proprietary crap. dfx. got it absolutely right - this is one of biggest types (if not the biggest) of scam ever.
          Last edited by ?John?; 30 March 2012, 08:54 AM.

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by allquixotic View Post
            In both of these situations, you're to blame. The blame is obvious in situation (a), and I'm sure that (UVD aside) AMD wouldn't actually be in that situation, so you probably agree with me that this case wouldn't come up for AMD very often. For situation (b), you might be pointing at the guy at the supermarket and saying vehemently, "Hey, it's his choice, not mine!" -- but it was you who bought the product in the first place. "Let the buyer beware" -- AMD didn't think through the consequences of their actions when they purchased that IP.
            Why is AMD to blame for you not being able to fully utilize encumbered technologies? It's not so much a technical issue with any hw block, it's more of an issue with HDMI and related technologies themselves. I would turn the comment on you. Let the consumer beware. If you want to use a technology with a number of inherent encumbrances, be prepared for limitations. Maybe use DP and toslink instead?

            Comment


            • #26
              Originally posted by agd5f View Post
              Why is AMD to blame for you not being able to fully utilize encumbered technologies?
              On one hand AMD is doing all kinds of good things by supporting Coreboot, FLOSS driver development, documentations, etc.

              But on the other hand they believe that forming a MPAA-ball-licking-club is good for technological progress. Quess why that fucking sucks? Now they can't even get a stupid monitor connector out of the lawyers office. How stupid is that?!

              Nobody asked for HDMI, btw... The sole reason this was ever adopted was because of BluRay and quess what? Disc media is dead! Now what's that stupid connector good for?! Nothing! We have DVI. We've got Bluetooth audio. Why the f-....

              Nevermind I'm not even using it. Point is; AMD fscked up by joining an already dead initiative (to stop a Napster version 2.0 situation with movies) and now it bites.

              Comment


              • #27
                Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
                But on the other hand they believe that forming a MPAA-ball-licking-club is good for technological progress. Quess why that fucking sucks? Now they can't even get a stupid monitor connector out of the lawyers office. How stupid is that?!
                Where did you get the idea that we had something to do with "forming the club" ?

                ATI and AMD have both pushed back hard on DRM and related technologies, but once the rules were in place and we had to choose between implementing the standards set by others or walking away from 3/4 of the GPU market we did the same as all the other GPU hardware vendors and implemented what was needed to sell chips. Feel free to call that evil but I don't see why you are singling AMD out unless you feel that "shooting the messenger" will somehow make the world a better place.

                Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
                Nobody asked for HDMI, btw... The sole reason this was ever adopted was because of BluRay and quess what? Disc media is dead! Now what's that stupid connector good for?! Nothing! We have DVI. We've got Bluetooth audio. Why the f-....
                Actually no... HDMI has absolutely nothing to do with BluRay other than arriving at roughly the same time and providing a convenient display connection that supported higher resolutions with a single connector. You could just as easily say that "the only reason it was adopted was HD-DVD" or "the only reason it was adopted was HD streaming video".

                The reason for supporting HDMI is that a lot of customers want to use their HDMI-connected TVs (which rarely have DVI).

                Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
                Nevermind I'm not even using it. Point is; AMD fscked up by joining an already dead initiative (to stop a Napster version 2.0 situation with movies) and now it bites.
                Just to be clear, which initiative are you talking about ?
                Last edited by bridgman; 08 April 2012, 01:24 PM.
                Test signature

                Comment


                • #28
                  Stay on the topic

                  Stay on the topic, please, people?

                  Qualcomm Calls To "Kill All Proprietary Drivers For Good".
                  Hm.. What is Qualcomm GPU again? Adreno? From what I know, it's no open source, right? Okay, let's Kill all proprietary drivers for good /s

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                    Where did you get the idea that we had something to do with "forming the club" ?
                    AMD was one of the founders of Trusted Computing Group. That's not just an encrypted multimedia connector standard; it's what the UK government now wants to use for civil computer and internet use. It's cancer and everybody hates it. It's now spanning into destroying human rights. I know it's not your idea and you probably hate DRM as much as I do; because you have to work with it. So this is not a rant against you, but against the company that you work for,

                    ATI and AMD have both pushed back hard on DRM and related technologies
                    I don't know about ATI, but AMD sure didn't push it back; it founded the worldwide hated DRM platform.

                    , but once the rules were in place and we had to choose between implementing the standards set by others or walking away from 3/4 of the GPU market we did the same as all the other GPU hardware vendors and implemented what was needed to sell chips. Feel free to call that evil but I don't see why you are singling AMD out unless you feel that "shooting the messenger" will somehow make the world a better place.
                    I'm not shooting the messenger; I'm giving consumer feedback. I don't think it will ever come across and if it does; I think not a single CEO will ever care. But literaly everybody hates DRM with a burning passion.

                    Singleing out... Hah... From what? RIAA and MPAA content? Is that more important than technology? Realy? I'd rather have a working computer that I own and fully control, than watch a B-movie filled with explosions. Like I have nothing better to watch, read, learn and do. And hell... I'm still a student. But I can tell you that there's a reason the sales of the RIAA and MPAA companies are plummeting; it's not because of piracy but because most people are finding (thanks to the internet) a lot better TV shows and music. The percentage that still listens to hit charts are the people who haven't discovered the internet yet.

                    Actually no... HDMI has absolutely nothing to do with BluRay other than arriving at roughly the same time and providing a convenient display connection that supported higher resolutions with a single connector. You could just as easily say that "the only reason it was adopted was HD-DVD" or "the only reason it was adopted was HD streaming video".
                    Ow please... It's probably the most fundamental part of the encryption chain. From the actual HDMI FAQ:
                    HDMI (High-Definition Multimedia Interface) is the first and only industry-supported, uncompressed, all-digital audio/video interface. By delivering crystal-clear, all-digital audio and video via a single cable, HDMI dramatically simplifies cabling and helps provide consumers with the highest-quality home theater experience. HDMI provides an interface between any audio/video source, such as a set-top box, DVD player, or A/V receiver and an audio and/or video monitor, such as a digital television (DTV), over a single cable.
                    I don't know about you, but that looks like a BluRay cable. (or HD-DVD which is basically a failed rival for the standard)

                    The reason for supporting HDMI is that a lot of customers want to use their HDMI-connected TVs (which rarely have DVI).
                    Exactly; people want to connect with HDMI because they have not other option. That's because everyone is on the fsked up DRM bandwagon, also including AMD.

                    Oh and BTW; TV sales are plumeting like crazy.
                    Last edited by V!NCENT; 09 April 2012, 11:34 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
                      AMD was one of the founders of Trusted Computing Group. That's not just an encrypted multimedia connector standard; it's what the UK government now wants to use for civil computer and internet use. It's cancer and everybody hates it. It's now spanning into destroying human rights. I know it's not your idea and you probably hate DRM as much as I do; because you have to work with it. So this is not a rant against you, but against the company that you work for,

                      I don't know about ATI, but AMD sure didn't push it back; it founded the worldwide hated DRM platform.
                      OK, I have to admit my first reaction was "WTF ? I thought we were talking about graphics". I had to look Trusted Computing up on Google to see what you were talking about... the group seems to include every company in the semi industry. You say "that's not just an encrypted multimedia connector standard" but AFAICS there is zero relationship between TC and multimedia connectors at all other than saying "they both have something to do with DRM".

                      Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
                      I'm not shooting the messenger; I'm giving consumer feedback. I don't think it will ever come across and if it does; I think not a single CEO will ever care. But literaly everybody hates DRM with a burning passion.
                      I still haven't figured out exactly why you're "passioning" at AMD though. Is it just because I'm posting here ? If so, I would call that shooting the messenger.

                      Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
                      Singleing out... Hah... From what? RIAA and MPAA content? Is that more important than technology? Realy? I'd rather have a working computer that I own and fully control, than watch a B-movie filled with explosions. Like I have nothing better to watch, read, learn and do. And hell... I'm still a student. But I can tell you that there's a reason the sales of the RIAA and MPAA companies are plummeting; it's not because of piracy but because most people are finding (thanks to the internet) a lot better TV shows and music. The percentage that still listens to hit charts are the people who haven't discovered the internet yet.
                      So why are you picking on AMD alone rather than all the companies who are TCG members ?

                      Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
                      Ow please... It's probably the most fundamental part of the encryption chain. From the actual HDMI FAQ:
                      How is HDMI any different from DVI or DisplayPort in that regard ? Are you maybe thinking about HDCP rather than HDMI ?

                      Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
                      I don't know about you, but that looks like a BluRay cable. (or HD-DVD which is basically a failed rival for the standard)
                      Sure, or a cable for any other mechanism that provides high def content.

                      %5
                      Last edited by bridgman; 09 April 2012, 12:20 PM.
                      Test signature

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X