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Is Compiz On Its Deathbed?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by drago01 View Post
    Well this is the very reason why it is "dying" i.e a compositor should be part of the desktop environment to be well integrated. That's why kwin and mutter (gnome-shell) are now used. Unity is in the same booth. Basically the idea of having a desktop agnostic window-manager and compositor failed.
    I don't think that is necessarily true. #1 KDE and Gnome aren't the only DE's around, or in use. #2 not everyone is happy with GnomeShell (myself, included - i'll never use it...) and there are still people using Compiz with KDE. #3 Compiz can be used with the vast majority of DEs (mutter can do this too, but Kwin is less portable, as it would require installing KDE stuff). #4 some people use compiz as 'standalone' and just start whatever panel, file-manager, etc on boot. ~ I would hardly call that a failure, Compiz can and is being used in a variety of ways.

    For numbers #2-3-4 - Compiz is anything but a failure. I would actually call it more of a success.

    The 'integrated compositor' is *only* a success, if you (the user) are happy with your 'integrated compositor'. Some people obviously aren't happy with them though... ie: GnomeShell/mutter was dropped from being the default DE/WM in the most popular distro (Ubuntu) and GnomeShell/mutter was also forked...IMO that doesn't translate into 'success'... Personally, I opted out of Gnome-Shell (with gnome3) because in reality ~ i was left with very basic functionality (from a compositing window manager perspective), and a DE/WM that wasn't even usable for the types of things, that i have.

    I think Kwin largely has been a great success, but that is the only 'integrated compositor', that i think of as a success, *for linux desktops* anyway.

    my 2 cents

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    • #32
      Originally posted by leigh123linux View Post
      Try learning to read (perhaps your blind or just out to pick a fight, well fuck you to) or did you miss the patch on that report.
      I wasn't out to pick a fight. i looked at your bug report a couple of days ago (whenever, you first posted the link), but didn't reply until today. Obviously, I forgot that the patch was there. *My bad* -> but, way to go off into the deep end, like someone just insulted your mom!

      Regardless of that, it would've been very trivial at best, to package compiz anyway. Which was kind of my point, in that post.

      So you can fuck yourself, wanker!

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      • #33
        Originally posted by ninez View Post
        Personally, I opted out of Gnome-Shell (with gnome3) because in reality ~ i was left with very basic functionality (from a compositing window manager perspective)
        What exactly did you miss? Just more effects? Starting with 3.4 effects like wobbly windows etc. can be done via extensions.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by drago01 View Post
          What exactly did you miss? Just more effects? Starting with 3.4 effects like wobbly windows etc. can be done via extensions.
          Nah, i hate wobbly windows and i'm not big on transitional effects, i try to use them mildly and tastefully. However (as a side note) i do like gaussion blur and transparency, which i get with compiz. ( ihaven't seen blur on GS, i don't think). I generally use those for pop-ups, menus, etc.

          For me, it is things like assignable hot/corners-edges for each/any plugin. ~ In particular, i use this feature with both 'Expo' and 'Scale'...

          I prefer Expo for managing applications across workspaces, over using 'Activities' view. Partially, to do with liking static workspaces (yes i know about the extension), partially because IMO Expo is a better way to view workspaces, ie: i prefer the layout, and partially to do with the fact that i find 'Activities' to be distracting, and overkill. I persoanlly think both Compiz and MacOSX got managing workspaces right, but Gnome? not so much.

          I prefer Compiz' 'scale' plugin (&& scale-addons) for things like 'natural view' ( it maps app window based on workspace position). which i find to be very useful.

          'Place' plugin, i also use. Being as i use gestures (via easystrok) to open apps (via stylus stoke), i often want the app to open right where my pointer is, while for others (like firefox) i always want it to open dead-center.

          There's others too, but i don't need to go into every plugin, here. I can sum it all up by saying that i prefer the flexibility, and granular control of compiz (via CCSM). It performance is also reasonable, and i don't experience problems with it, that i do with both GS/mutter and Cinnamon. (like a bunch of xruns, when opening activites / or scale in cinnamon).

          There's also been some great fixes for compiz in the last couple of weeks, the 2 that i noticed right away, was the nvidia fix and the cpu fix. The former being visually noticable in the odd situation...and the latter being a reduction of CPU usage by compiz, by like 40-50% on my system.

          anyway, GS isn't my cup of tea and regardless it causes xruns on my (proaudio) system, which means it isn't usable.
          Last edited by ninez; 05 March 2012, 06:20 PM.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by ninez View Post
            Nah, i hate wobbly windows and i'm not big on transitional effects, i try to use them mildly and tastefully. However (as a side note) i do like gaussion blur and transparency, which i get with compiz. ( ihaven't seen blur on GS, i don't think). I generally use those for pop-ups, menus, etc.

            For me, it is things like assignable hot/corners-edges for each/any plugin. ~ In particular, i use this feature with both 'Expo' and 'Scale'...

            I prefer Expo for managing applications across workspaces, over using 'Activities' view. Partially, to do with liking static workspaces (yes i know about the extension), partially because IMO Expo is a better way to view workspaces, ie: i prefer the layout, and partially to do with the fact that i find 'Activities' to be distracting, and overkill. I persoanlly think both Compiz and MacOSX got managing workspaces right, but Gnome? not so much.

            I prefer Compiz' 'scale' plugin (&& scale-addons) for things like 'natural view' ( it maps app window based on workspace position). which i find to be very useful.

            'Place' plugin, i also use. Being as i use gestures (via easystrok) to open apps (via stylus stoke), i often want the app to open right where my pointer is, while for others (like firefox) i always want it to open dead-center.

            There's others too, but i don't need to go into every plugin, here. I can sum it all up by saying that i prefer the flexibility, and granular control of compiz (via CCSM). It performance is also reasonable, and i don't experience problems with it, that i do with both GS/mutter and Cinnamon. (like a bunch of xruns, when opening activites / or scale in cinnamon).

            There's also been some great fixes for compiz in the last couple of weeks, the 2 that i noticed right away, was the nvidia fix and the cpu fix. The former being visually noticable in the odd situation...and the latter being a reduction of CPU usage by compiz, by like 40-50% on my system.

            anyway, GS isn't my cup of tea and regardless it causes xruns on my (proaudio) system, which means it isn't usable.
            Hey ninez,

            Since you are having these problems consistently, you might want to let the main GS guys know. I'm sure they'd want to accomodate usage like yours.

            Best/Liam

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            • #36
              Originally posted by ninez View Post
              Nah, i hate wobbly windows and i'm not big on transitional effects, i try to use them mildly and tastefully. However (as a side note) i do like gaussion blur and transparency, which i get with compiz. ( ihaven't seen blur on GS, i don't think). I generally use those for pop-ups, menus, etc.

              For me, it is things like assignable hot/corners-edges for each/any plugin. ~ In particular, i use this feature with both 'Expo' and 'Scale'...

              I prefer Expo for managing applications across workspaces, over using 'Activities' view. Partially, to do with liking static workspaces (yes i know about the extension), partially because IMO Expo is a better way to view workspaces, ie: i prefer the layout, and partially to do with the fact that i find 'Activities' to be distracting, and overkill. I persoanlly think both Compiz and MacOSX got managing workspaces right, but Gnome? not so much.
              OSX Lion does use dynamic workspace just like GNOME3 (you can just configure that starting amount) .... basically "Mission Control" is very similar to the Overview in GNOME3.

              I prefer Compiz' 'scale' plugin (&& scale-addons) for things like 'natural view' ( it maps app window based on workspace position). which i find to be very useful.



              There's others too, but i don't need to go into every plugin, here. I can sum it all up by saying that i prefer the flexibility, and granular control of compiz (via CCSM). It performance is also reasonable, and i don't experience problems with it, that i do with both GS/mutter and Cinnamon. (like a bunch of xruns, when opening activites / or scale in cinnamon).

              There's also been some great fixes for compiz in the last couple of weeks, the 2 that i noticed right away, was the nvidia fix and the cpu fix. The former being visually noticable in the odd situation...and the latter being a reduction of CPU usage by compiz, by like 40-50% on my system.

              anyway, GS isn't my cup of tea and regardless it causes xruns on my (proaudio) system, which means it isn't usable.
              There is no reason at all why mutter would be slower then compiz (on my system it isn't) but in case it is (to the point causing xruns) that's just a bug (if you have a reproduce able case please file it, I'll look at it.)

              http://blog.fishsoup.net/2011/06/13/...r-performance/ does not have any recent fixes but compiz did not look to good in this testing.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by drago01 View Post
                Basically the idea of having a desktop agnostic window-manager and compositor failed.
                If this is the case, then politics may be the cause, rather than Compiz failing to offer integration with a variety of desktop environments. There was ready-made, modular system that could have been built upon... Buts thats GNU/Linux, eh; where would the 'ecosystem' be without constantly reinventing the wheel.

                Did I mention Pulseaudio? /slapme

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by drago01 View Post
                  OSX Lion does use dynamic workspace just like GNOME3 (you can just configure that starting amount) .... basically "Mission Control" is very similar to the Overview in GNOME3.
                  I'm not really a big fan of mission control, i think it is overkill as well. X4 or X8 workspaces, static and either gnome-pie, terminal or dock to launch apps. That is all that i need. I don't need some giant glorified menu.

                  I'll have a look at it, i hadn't seen this one yet. But that still only covers one little piece of the puzzle, if it works as well...

                  Originally posted by drago01 View Post
                  There is no reason at all why mutter would be slower then compiz (on my system it isn't) but in case it is (to the point causing xruns) that's just a bug (if you have a reproduce able case please file it, I'll look at it.)

                  http://blog.fishsoup.net/2011/06/13/...r-performance/ does not have any recent fixes but compiz did not look to good in this testing.
                  Really, you're going to post Owen Taylor's (creator of mutter) benchmarks from last year?! ~ I am have (current day) mutter and Compiz both right in front of me and i can easily see for myself which works better for me/my system/hardware... I don't need to look at old (IMO potentially biased) benchmarks.
                  Last edited by ninez; 06 March 2012, 12:07 AM.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by ninez View Post
                    Really, you're going to post Owen Taylor's (creator of mutter) benchmarks from last year?! ~ I am have (current day) mutter and Compiz both right in front of me and i can easily see for myself which works better for me/my system/hardware... I don't need to look at old (IMO potentially biased) benchmarks.
                    First I said that "does not have any recent fixes" secondly just because Owen maintains mutter does not mean that he "faked" the benchmarks. Also I didn't say that this couldn't be the case for specific hardware / software combinations hence while I have asked you to file a bug with details.

                    I am not interested in "A is better than B, no B is better than A" kind of discussions but rather want to identify real issues and fix them.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by drago01 View Post
                      First I said that "does not have any recent fixes" secondly just because Owen maintains mutter does not mean that he "faked" the benchmarks. Also I didn't say that this couldn't be the case for specific hardware / software combinations hence while I have asked you to file a bug with details.

                      I am not interested in "A is better than B, no B is better than A" kind of discussions but rather want to identify real issues and fix them.
                      Who said i am? I only said, that i can see for myself, which one works better for me and that i didn't need to look at Owen's outdated benchmarks (they have zero impact on my choice of compositor).

                      i don't even see why you posted those benchmarks. If you knew it was outdated, surely there was little point in showing it... As for being 'faked', i just know at the time those were published ~ mutter was pure crap on my system(s) and visually was lagging. As an example, If i did things like launch 10 instances of mplayer, mutter lagged - if i did the same thing with compiz it didn't. .. and yes, this is actually something i have done... Mutter has improved a lot since then, but so has compiz. For me, compiz is still a much better choice/fit for my system && workflow.

                      As for filing bug reports against mutter/GnomeShell. ~ i am not interested in using either of them, so there is little reason, for me to sit down, test and file bug reports. Instead, i tend to do that for software that i actually use daily. GnomeShell dev's are aware of this issue (rt + xruns) anyway. it is a problem that has been brought up to them (almost a year ago)... And IMO GS isn't a good fit for proaudio users anyway, hence why proaudio distro's like UbuntuStudio/KxStudio/etc don't bother with it.
                      Last edited by ninez; 06 March 2012, 08:23 AM.

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