Sabayon 7 vs. Ubuntu 11.10 Performance

[crazycheese]

Also, trying to get a hang of the whole emerge thing, first of all the specific Entropy thing just updates weekly core and security and then just sits there using 100% CPU to no end ( I know i'm running a live system but damn ). And using emerge directly ( although I don't know if it still should work !? ) like "emerge sys-process/htop" yields that there is no such package, i guess my Gentoo n00biness is at hand here as I did not go in the whole overlays info.

eix htop
emerge -pv htop
... do some modifications to use flags, if neccessary.
.... like echo "sys-process/htop blabla -bla">>/etc/portage/package.use
emerge -q htop
cfg-update -u

[crazycheese]

Sabayon never claimed to be Gentoo or even a replacement for it. It's a primarily desktop-oriented distro with a focus on an out-of-the-box experience (YMMV).

Use calculate linux instead. At least they have done it right(but not ideal). They are using Gentoo possibilities without cutting or wiping its functionality under the carpet.
For me, sabayon has used gentoo to create binary form and re-invented the wheel (entropy, sulfur). Had they pushed portage to include binary functions on par to those of apt, would be whole different situation. Shame, actually.
But now, when they have "binarized" the distro, it is technically no different than those of Ubuntu, because they ship with generic CFLAGS and Usettings. Gentoo advantages are not used.

They developed their binary package manager to aid in this approach. Sabayon is much more independent now because of this.
They were derived from Gentoo originally, but sort of like Chakra is doing, they are making their own path while keeping a nod to their origin.

Another reason I don't like Sabayon at all.
I have used Arch prior to Gentoo, and its way less usable (excluding their nice binary kernel which simplifies everything a lot).
And I don't like Chakra for the same reason. They should keep in mind why the exist (because its takes too long to tweak raw Arch into *that* usable KDE desktop, not-speaking about out of the box experience of newbies).
If they go their own path, they will become completely useless, because their raw parent gives them the advantages and sticking together except for few parts where it does not make sense makes two distros great.

Gentoo is Gentoo; Sabayon is Sabayon. Each has their own strengths and weaknesses. Each has their own appeal to different users.

This is exactly why calculate is greater than sabayon. Because calculate is "calculate + gentoo". Its like being a variety to achieve goals, while keeping roots for synergy; instead of becoming separate incomplete entity to reinvent bicycles.
Same reasons for example, why I personally ditched Daniel Robbins Funtoo. While Gentoo has policy of staying close to upstream version and labeling modifications as such, Robbins Grub2 (and many more) plainly modify the behaviour without allowing options. Like he said himself, its *his* version of Gentoo, for *his* goals. The meta- in gentoo becomes lost.

That said, I wish Sabayon developers integrate themself into Gentoo family without loosing what they gained, or at least look back; instead of going completely on their own by cutting own roots.
Ubuntu did that, but to lesser degree and yet Ubuntu is more on their goal area than Sabayon (where it overlaps with Sabayon), because from what they decided to pick up along with them (package manager) is more usable for their goal than Sabayon, which started (nearly) from scratch.

[BlueJayofEvil]

Use calculate linux instead. At least they have done it right(but not ideal). They are using Gentoo possibilities without cutting or wiping its functionality under the carpet.
For me, sabayon has used gentoo to create binary form and re-invented the wheel (entropy, sulfur). Had they pushed portage to include binary functions on par to those of apt, would be whole different situation. Shame, actually.

I agree.

But now, when they have "binarized" the distro, it is technically no different than those of Ubuntu, because they ship with generic CFLAGS and Usettings. Gentoo advantages are not used.

Sabayon isn't exactly targeting advanced Gentoo-lovers. But you are correct that the generic CFLAGS and such are wasted potential.

And I don't like Chakra for the same reason. They should keep in mind why the exist (because its takes too long to tweak raw Arch into *that* usable KDE desktop, not-speaking about out of the box experience of newbies).

The Chakra team has their own ideals and values they wish to follow. Arch was simply their base until they could become what they wanted to. Same goes for many distros.

If they go their own path, they will become completely useless, because their raw parent gives them the advantages and sticking together except for few parts where it does not make sense makes two distros great.

It's their freedom and choice to follow their own path. Just because it doesn't suit you doesn't make it "completely useless." Not everyone wants or needs the "advantages" their parent distros have.
If you don't like a distro, don't use it. There's plenty of others out there that may or may not match your needs.

That said, I wish Sabayon developers integrate themself into Gentoo family without loosing what they gained, or at least look back; instead of going completely on their own by cutting own roots.

Fabio and one of the other Sabayon devs are official Gentoo developers. Fabio is working on getting Entropy accepted upstream last I heard. They have no intention of going completely their own route. They wish to be an optional supplement to an already great distro/system.

[crazycheese]

It's their freedom and choice to follow their own path. Just because it doesn't suit you doesn't make it "completely useless." Not everyone wants or needs the "advantages" their parent distros have.
If you don't like a distro, don't use it. There's plenty of others out there that may or may not match your needs.

Thats because I care about linux distributions. Of course its their choice, but there are obvious rules that will make the life easier or harder depending solely on strategy. Synergy is one of those rules, its nice when people exchange whats done and charge for real work, instead of putting themself into patent barricades. Its nice when Chakra builds from Arch and fixes stream between, its for everyone of them to dump the unused features - but its much faster to exchange than re-invent. The existence of distribution should be questioned by its own makers and proven to be of need, else it will only exist for their own ego, which is waste of good effort. For example, currently Russia tries to build "national" OS and they have contracted several companies. Thats not a problem. The problem is, they could have invested in Debian and use just 3-4 developers to produce several decoration packages to make "national" OS. No, they re-invent wheels, opensource wheels.

Fabio and one of the other Sabayon devs are official Gentoo developers. Fabio is working on getting Entropy accepted upstream last I heard. They have no intention of going completely their own route. They wish to be an optional supplement to an already great distro/system.

I have read about it yesterday, I salute his patience and wisdom. They should think about joining effort with Calculate where possible. Im not Calculate developer, but I know exactly why Calculate exists and how they tick - they did a lot and its all free in their Gentoo overlay. Its one of the things I love about gentoo - that it has a lot of "-meta". Not different packages, not different distributions, just power of use flags.

[BlueJayofEvil]

@crazycheese

You seem to like Calculate a lot. I'm going to check it out.
Also, have you heard of/used Toorox?

[crazycheese]

@crazycheese

You seem to like Calculate a lot. I'm going to check it out.
Also, have you heard of/used Toorox?

Yes and no.
The problem is, although they have done many things right in terms of becoming ready gentoo to desktop in under 1 minute without castrating functionality:
+ they have very improved genkernel, as far as I know it is nearly rewritten from scratch. The current hardware is DETECTED by it and only needed modules are added into initramfs, resulting in very fast start and small kernel size.
+ they have installer
+ they recommend to use gentoo tools to do stuff, for example - portato if gfx frontend for portage in needed.
+ they have formed all their changes around acknowledged official overlay, which is attachable in layman when using normal gentoo
+ it is possible to convert raw gentoo into calculate simply by switching profiles. And vice versa.
+ they provide functional desktop for working environiment as well as server
+ they provide tools to manage these network and provide tools for windows-compability (samba, activedirectory etc), useful for companies for example (one of which is the primary supporter - calculate ltd)
+ they have working bugtracker, working irc, working site, speaking english (although russians) and their site has english version.
+ company is behind their support, with full-time devs. And yet they are completely opensource. They offer integration services for price.

But:
- their profiles is currently something to be desired
-- lots of software which,.... *tada*... gentoo itself is unable to correctly strip due to portage limitation.
--- means, if you want to just remove one app, you have to switch from binary profile to normal profile (building every update from source), or there will be problems in form of segfaults. And 1) rebuild the system 2) every new update will be built just like normal gentoo does. No advantages of binary packages.
- their decisions regarding to system variables may be not ideal. I consider them a bit weird.
- subconscious thing: prebuilt gentoo always feels not right..

So currently, its nice and all, but
1) you expect a little bit more out of the box and fuzz-less (and less problems) if you have zero understanding about gentoo.
2) you shake your head if you use gentoo daily, as you possibly not use a lot from that; you possibly will have to strip a lot; means you possibly are faster achieving your system via *stage3* (bottom-up), than by stripping calculate (switching profile to basic, adding soft, correcting use flags etc)

Still, they are near-er to gentoo-way, than sabayon. Or funtoo(less).

Didn't use toorox, will give a try