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  • #11
    Originally posted by bridgman View Post
    Remember that discrete GPUs are used with CPUs from other vendors as well, not just from AMD, so it helps to look at the product placement relative to all the desktop systems out there rather than just the latest AMD products.

    That said, I usually buy the midrange part (my last board purchase was an HD 5670) so I'm probably not the best person to be arguing the merits of the entry level discrete GPU

    Also note that most of the Llano design wins were for notebook rather than desktop, although it does make a pretty slick desktop system. I don't think anyone is suggesting that an HD6450 is the right match for a Llano anyways.
    Last entry level discrete GPU I bought was a Radeon HD4350. It was my first new GPU in quite some time and I was just amazed at how much faster it was than both the integrated graphics and the Radeon X300. I also decided to buy it because I didn't want to be stuck with the open source drivers for the X300, which now has EXCELLENT open source support -____- Anyway, for $29 it was totally worth it. I can definitely see where retrograding a previous PC with a low end card would definitely make a difference.

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    • #12
      Originally posted by bridgman View Post
      IIRC a GDDR5 card with 64-bit memory bus is still cheaper to build than a DDR3 card with 128-bit memory bus.
      Too bad most will pair this chip with 64-it GDDR2... Below the HD*670 series the variance of vram bus and tech seem to be chosen at completely at random, I still have my old Nvidia 8500GT 128-bit GDDR3 since it outperformed almost all the more expensive 8600GT cards due to them having 64-bit and/or GDDR2 vram even though the 8600 had more shaders to work with, the "faster" 8600GT only pulled ahead when it too was using 128-bit GDDR3. In that case the 8600GTS was the floor for which all cards HAD TO HAVE 128-bit GDDR3.

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      • #13
        Yeah, the problem is that some fairly large percentage of buyers, maybe 99.9999999% or so (plus or minus a couple of '9's), still seem to make buying decisions based on the amount of VRAM rather than the performance characteristics of the memory. As with so many things in life, broken reward systems lead to seemingly undesireable or irrational behaviour. If buyers reward vendors for making cards with lots of slow memory it's not hard to predict what kind of cards you are going to see next time.

        On the other hand, having too little memory can result in a fairly sharp performance drop at very high resolutions and this issue seems to be fairly well understood, so one could make a case that spending on amount of memory future-proofs you in a way that buying faster memory can not. By that logic a low end DX11 card with 1GB of DDR3 isn't that bad an idea, although it's not the tradeoff I would make.
        Last edited by bridgman; 10 September 2011, 02:20 PM.
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        • #14
          Originally posted by LinuxID10T View Post
          See, the thing is I would never compare it to Ontario's graphics because it is a desktop card while Ontario is integrated for netbooks. It is just with Llano being the desktop processor, I would compare it to a desktop card, such as the HD 6450. That being said, if the audience for the HD 6450 is just people wanting to upgrade an existing PC I could see that. I just can't see where AMD is trying to place it on its new desktop lineup.
          There are actually quite allot of Nettops(ITX based systems small enough to be bolted right on the back of the monitor) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16883220072 and desktop mobos based around the E-350, which have a PCIe 16x slot. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...=1&srchInDesc=

          Originally posted by DanL View Post
          I think it's pretty clear this card is aimed at HTPC's and it's a great product for Windows users. When the gallium3D VDPAU stack matures (and I have faith that it will with AMD's dedicated devs), this could be a perfect card for HTPC and/or general desktop use on Linux. It should be cheaper then too
          Meh, it sucks even for an HTPC, better to go with the A series chips so you can at least play most of the HIB games, this chip would fall short of that in several of the titles, Penubra, FrozenByte games etc.

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          • #15
            Originally posted by Qaridarium
            AMD still not sell any Arma2 proved Desktop card thats because arma2 needs more than 2,5gb vram!

            my frend prove this with an gtx580 with 3gb vram.

            on amd side you have to buy an 4gb vram fireGL card to play the game arm2.

            What? This not the game? https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Arma2 Cause in came out years ago, and has much more modest requirements then you claim. Turn down the AA settings... If the game is really as heavy as you claim then why does no review site use it as a benchmark? Unigine Heaven and Crysis/Warhead seem to be ubiquitous as the heaviest benchmarks but according to you this game is even heavier?

            Though I will say, why was there no Eyefinity6 version of the HD6970?

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            • #16
              Then as before, if it is so heavy then why is it not used as a benchmark on any review site I've ever seen? It sounds like it would actually be a perfect candidate.

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              • #17
                Originally posted by Kivada View Post
                Meh, it sucks even for an HTPC, better to go with the A series chips so you can at least play...
                I guess your definition of an HTPC differs from mine, because I see HTPC's as low power stuff focused on playing audio/video, and not really used for gaming.

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                • #18
                  Originally posted by DanL View Post
                  I guess your definition of an HTPC differs from mine, because I see HTPC's as low power stuff focused on playing audio/video, and not really used for gaming.
                  Yes, and while an A-series may be powerful enough for a lot of HTPC's, a lot of people expect them to be able to do realtime transcoding. That can require a faster CPU than you get with the A-series, especially if you are expecting it to serve multiple streams across a household.

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                  • #19
                    Originally posted by Qaridarium
                    if you search for it there are benchmarks with arma2...

                    but hey its not the most popular game.

                    but its the game with the most hardware hunger!
                    So teh google no real review/benchmark site using it, 1 off youtube and forum posts don't count. But I did fid this little nugget http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1575096 So apparently it's a horrible buggy turd with schizophrenic artists running the gamut of 8-bit to Pixar level CGI detail at the same time...

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                    • #20
                      Originally posted by DanL View Post
                      I guess your definition of an HTPC differs from mine, because I see HTPC's as low power stuff focused on playing audio/video, and not really used for gaming.
                      Simple, you can repurpose any machine in the last 10 YEARS to be a dumb playback console, hell, you'd be better served with an old Tivo, but if you want to do more then just watch TV you need something more.

                      If dumb, low power and cheap are what you want then get a $35 Raspberry Pi when they come out http://www.raspberrypi.org/?p=152 For everything else theres the A8-3850 w/ huge fanless block, 4-8Gb of 2.4Ghz ram, an SSD, a Seasonic X series fanless 90% of the time PSU and maybe some super quiet 800 or 1200RPM 120mm fluid bearing fans. I'll still be damn quiet, if not completely silent, just kick the video in from ye olde backup server. Hell get a Gigabyte UD4 mobo and be able to charge your phone off it when it's off as well.

                      So yes, I'd rather have the PC in the Home Theater instead of just a dumb video console.

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