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Thread: Maker3D - create your 3D RPG

  1. #21
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    Kano:
    the maker has a built in game to show the handling of the engine. (you can load and run startloc.bas)
    i dont know about other games made with maker, becouse i dont folow my costumers. judging from the emails at my support address, there is 3-4 wich is actively developed, and may alreday reached demo stage (maker is not so old)

    darkbasic:
    thanks
    btw, openarena only uses the half of the vertexes than maker, and it does not even have shadows and postprocess.
    you can disable the shadowing and postprocess in maker, then it will run around 60 fps also.
    also, maker's graphics engine has proper multimesh control, q3 endine do not even have that.
    that engine would literally shit into his own pants from this content that maker needs to process...

    so yes, the problem is with intel gpus. dont troll
    (no, i will not disable these effects in default just becouse intel makes slow hardware)
    Last edited by Geri; 01-09-2012 at 11:40 AM.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geri View Post
    yeah actually, its some kind of pandemic disease around us
    Seems a bit unfair to criticize Intel's hardware so much then if you know the fault is partly yours.

    Swtiching from opengl to other thing is not possible, this is a crossplatform software. And newer versions of d3d does not even available to XP, and 9 are old and legacy.
    Supporting both is actually a lot easier than most people think. The actual parts of a graphics API that are used are pretty small, and the APIs need to be wrapped up behind a graphics interface for any non-trivial renderer no matter what. Really the hardest part by _far_ is just porting the shaders between the two, but that's where things like Cg come into play.

    It is more work, yes, but on the other hand if you primarily develop on Windows and port later to OSX/Linux then you'll find that working in D3D natively will save you a lot of head-to-desk moments, lower your blood pressure, and let you keep more of your hair.

    Steam is not AAA-only. I didnt sayd that pc game industry is dieing. Its not. But the pc game AAA level industry does. Its market share decrases in every year, it was on the top around the year 2000, now its basically almost below the detectable statistical margin, when compared to the other segments of the game industry.
    I was just at a conference earlier this year (DICE) geared solely towards marketing and business in the games industry, and there was an entire talk by an Activision exec about the "PC gaming is dying" myth. It's an often quoted statistic that's simply based on a misinterpretation of the market numbers. The talk is of course based on actual sales figures from actual AAA games over the last few years; they are very concrete, very objective, and very difficult to argue with.

    AAA game sales for PCs have _increased_ since 2000. All that "market share" means is that for every new PC gamers, there's 3 new console gamers. It does _not_ mean that PC gamers are largely converting to console gamers nor does it mean that there are no new PC gamers. It's just a measure of rate of growth, and while both PC and consoles are growing, consoles are simply growing much faster. Both markets are growing, the console market is just growing much much faster, because it's an easier market to enter (parents are more likely to buy their children a $200 console than they are to buy them a $1000 mid-line game-friendly PC or a $2000 game-friendly laptop, and consoles don't require a high level of expertise and maintenance effort to keep working like Windows/OSX/Linux do).

    Keep in mind that as far back as 2000, gaming was still a "nerd" thing to a large degree. Here in 2012 it's not uncommon at all to see whole families playing games, to see popular highschool girls having gaming parties with their cheerleader friends, to see the low-IQ jock-stereotype "bros" getting together for Halo or Madden nights, for middle-aged men and women to be MMO addicts or to be clan leaders in online FPS games, and so on. Gaming is mainstream now, so there's more than enough room for consoles to grow 600% while PC gaming _also_ still grows, because the industry as a whole has exploded in size.

    This is why its slow: its totally a 2+ mbyte source code written in pure C, and even if i would optimise this mess for a month (sometimes i do it) i just can gain a ~10% performance incrase. Becouse the limitating thing is the engine itself. But it canot be bypassed, becouse without this, i would unable to writte things like maker. So the performance is sacraficed in the name of existence.
    This goes back to identifying the problem: I don't think the size of your engine has much to do with things on the GPU side. When it comes to graphics, the CPU side of your code is not going to have a huge impact, unless you're simply doing things on the CPU that should be on the GPU (e.g., like Skyrim's shadowing system, which is all CPU-side for some mind-fucking-insane reason). Point being, there may be some very small, simple things to rearchitect in your graphics pipeline to get very large increases in performance. Just have to identify if those do exist and if so what they are.
    Last edited by elanthis; 01-09-2012 at 05:12 PM.

  3. #23
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    ,,Seems a bit unfair to criticize Intel's hardware so much then if you know the fault is partly yours.''
    no, its not. ~35 fps on a middle class computer IS my ,,failure''
    but 3 fps on intel gpu's are NOT, thats intel fault, only they :P:P
    a same price/spec nvidia hardware, it can run 5-15x faster :P:P

    ,,Supporting both is actually a lot easier than most people think''
    yes, if you design the code with keeping your eye on multi-api compatibility. if not, its almost impossible.
    btw as i see, d3d drivers are just making the same retardness like opengl drivers, so i would never develop any game for d3d at all.

    ,,Activision''
    i think, the incrase of the sales not really a helpfull parameter, especially when manufacturial costs are basically raping
    the whole industry, becouse they are actually incrasing mutch more, than the sales...
    so i think market share is a mutch better measure.

    ,,while PC gaming _also_ still grows''
    you are right. but what you telling there, is the total pc gaming market, not just the pc-AAA.
    probably you alreday recognized, that farmville has more active players (80m) than the TOTAL steam registered users (40m).
    a typical pc game is not an aaa game.

    (a theory calims that the lizzards grows until they are die.)

    ,,This goes back to identifying the problem: I don't think the size of your engine has much to do with things on the GPU side.''
    yeah, i told that to explain, why it was hard to reach 30 fps on middle class gpu's.
    its a different thing, its not related to the intel-gpu problem at all.


    ,,like Skyrim's shadowing system, which is all CPU-side for some mind-fucking-insane reason''
    oh wow, i didnt know that :3
    a timid note: my next experimental graphics engine also does this, becouse its actually a software-only ray tracer

  4. #24
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    BTW, what about adding a benchmark to your software? it should be quite easy to implement
    It is a completely new engine, if it will end up being inserted into the phoronix test suite you will earn a lot of free advertising...
    Last edited by darkbasic; 01-10-2012 at 03:38 PM.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geri View Post
    Qaridarium: maker crashes with some intel gpus aniway since intels last driver update

    since that on some systems my maker crashes on some random configs, and my app is forced to the lowest possible level of mipmapping from intel drivers, and aniso is turned off also. result: now runs with 4 fps in hq mode. very cool and interesting result, compared to an nvidia or ati laptop on the same price can push more than 30 fps in hq with proper aa and af
    because of this i stay away from any intel solution.

  6. #26
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    darkbasic: i dont plan to add benchmarking, but executing the game in debug mode shows the fps.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkbasic View Post
    BTW, what about adding a benchmark to your software? it should be quite easy to implement
    It is a completely new engine, if it will end up being inserted into the phoronix test suite you will earn a lot of free advertising...
    This. Other linux games would benefit from this too.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geri View Post
    ,,Seems a bit unfair to criticize Intel's hardware so much then if you know the fault is partly yours.''
    no, its not. ~35 fps on a middle class computer IS my ,,failure''
    but 3 fps on intel gpu's are NOT, thats intel fault, only they :P:P
    a same price/spec nvidia hardware, it can run 5-15x faster :P:P
    You'd be surprised. You can make both NVIDIA and ATI hardware slow to a crawl by doing something that seems reasonable but just happens to hit a weak point. Yes, Intel is much slower, but again, even AAA games can manage on it these days at playable FPS. There is probably a solution.

    ,,Supporting both is actually a lot easier than most people think''
    yes, if you design the code with keeping your eye on multi-api compatibility. if not, its almost impossible.
    True enough. Lesson for the future, I guess.

    ,,while PC gaming _also_ still grows''
    you are right. but what you telling there, is the total pc gaming market, not just the pc-AAA.
    Actually it _is_ just the AAA games I'm talking about. Web games are not counted as PC games, they are counted as Web games, specifically because they work on a wide multitude of platforms. Farmville can be played on an Android phone, for instance.

    When counting up games like these, we specifically look at native executable titles. Mobile games specifically count games written specifically for Android, iOS, WP7, etc. Xbox games (obviously enough, in this case) only count Xbox games (which are all of them, as it has no Web browser or such). Flash and HTML5 games count as Web games.

    The places that get tricky are games built with toolkits like XNA, which technically can run on three platforms: PC, XBLA, and WP7. However, there's like 3 games I can think of that have had any success at all that have been built with XNA, so it's not a huge problem for the statistic just yet.

    ,,like Skyrim's shadowing system, which is all CPU-side for some mind-fucking-insane reason''
    oh wow, i didnt know that :3
    a timid note: my next experimental graphics engine also does this, becouse its actually a software-only ray tracer
    Hey, experimental hobby projects are one thing. Platinum-selling AAA game engines built on existing game engine technology by professionals with years of industry experience are another thing entirely.

    With any software, you have to know what your goals are when writing it. Experimental engines have very different goals generally than engines meant for mass-consumer-oriented distribution and acclaim. Hell, look at most of the IGF/IGC winning games: most of them are (being frank) pretty unfun games. The same goes for a lot of the demo scene games, which are interesting to check out but almost all of them become boring as hell within about 30 seconds. Not all games and game projects are about making the next Mario-esque classic that will endure for decades. So long as you are doing what you want to be doing and it's working out well for you, that's what matters most.

  9. #29

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    I can't launch it.

  10. #30
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    chris200x9: you must give more information about your problem.

    elanthis:
    yeah, if i would get tons of money, i would hire a lot of professional programmers (5-6), i would command them, to write a graphics engine on AAA quality, they would probably create an AAA graphics engine... but engine without content makes no sense, so i would need to hire 5-6 professional modellers who can do models in brutal quality, etc etc... so that will be 12 people, working for 2 year, it would cost around 2*12*12*10000 euro ~= 2 880 000 euros.
    or if somebody would invent a cloning machine, i can clone myself into 8230 geris, and i would code a brand new graphics engine within days, then i would occupy the world and free up every contry with them, or i would just massacre them after they do not need...

    complitely makes sense

    but... you know what? if i would have that money, i would buy an island somewhere in the sea, and girls. 10 girls with good ass, and with strict thighs.

    aaapc isnt equal to pc games, it just a subset.

    btw, in my viewpoint, experimental hobby project = work = experimental serious project = money = professional industry experience of years, in casual (game)dev. the best is to run 10-20 experimental projects simultanously, nobody knows, wich one will be possible to sold, wich one will be popular, wich one will bring you money. in the past 4 years, i had around 80 experimental projects. 4 survived, but only 2 finished.

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