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Thread: Fedora 16 Features With Desktop, Virtualization, Etc

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by drag View Post
    So.. you are really saying that installing Gnome-Tweak-Tool is a barrier to power users?
    "Power users" want to get actual work done in the most efficient manner, and would rather switch to a different DE than have to install more crap in order to make one DE actually work.

    "Power users" have minimise and shutdown buttons and don't want to have to jump through hoops to get them.

    With even Linus abandoning Gnome 3 for XFCE, I'm guessing that's going to be the new "power user" default. I tried the latest Ubuntu version last night and it actually seems quite usable these days.

  2. #12
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    Nobody noticed the Blender 1.47.

    That's such an old version, don't they mean Blender 2.47?

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by movieman View Post
    With even Linus abandoning Gnome 3 for XFCE, I'm guessing that's going to be the new "power user" default.
    Yeah, also with Linus abandoning Kmart and now going to Walmart for all his underwear shopping, I'm guessing Walmart is going to be the new default where Linux "power users" are going to buy their underwear.

    Must follow the leader!


  4. #14
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    I was able to solve most of my usability problems with gnome-shell with a few tweaks:
    http://www.botchco.com/agd5f/?p=54
    Once I reconfigured it, I was pretty pleased overall.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by movieman View Post
    "Power users" want to get actual work done in the most efficient manner, and would rather switch to a different DE than have to install more crap in order to make one DE actually work.

    "Power users" have minimise and shutdown buttons and don't want to have to jump through hoops to get them.

    With even Linus abandoning Gnome 3 for XFCE, I'm guessing that's going to be the new "power user" default. I tried the latest Ubuntu version last night and it actually seems quite usable these days.
    Have a reference for Linus switching? It doesn't surprise me that he did, mind you, but I couldn't find any news to the effect. Given the uproar his movement to Gnome prompted I'd have expected to find at least a single link.

    Although I'm a bit tired of defending GS, "power users" don't NECCESSARILY have min or shutdown buttons and "power users", by their name, should have no problems editing dconf to return the min buttons, or adding the extension to return the power button. If that is all you have to complain about then you have nothing to complain about.
    BTW, GS works fine for me without ANY tweaks, but I've regardless made numerous ones (in a rather cleaner way than I felt Gnome 2 presented) that make it more pleasant to use (a big one being the theme, which is really needs work -- the stark black bar at the top REALLY clashes with the calming gray of the main theme).
    Regardless, enjoy whatever desktop you use.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by agd5f View Post
    I was able to solve most of my usability problems with gnome-shell with a few tweaks:
    http://www.botchco.com/agd5f/?p=54
    Once I reconfigured it, I was pretty pleased overall.
    The power managment issues are the ones that seem oddest to me. I'm using a T510 (and GF is using X220T) and neither resume from RAM reliably. So, like you I changed it to turn off screen on close. That fixes that, but then there is the issue of Gnome not remembering what level the backlight is supposed to be at (I like it ~70-80% on AC and 40% on BAT). It just sort of resets each time and I haven't found a way to make it "remember". Since they are using the same power management backend (until F16 when they change to upower, IIRC) it SHOULD work, but it just isn't, and these laptops are probably amongst the most common amongst linux developers (maybe not her tablet, but thinkpad in general, certainly).
    As to why this policy was fiat'd I don't understand. It is known these things cause problems and to make them default just seems to be asking for trouble.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by droidhacker View Post
    Gnome3, in its F15 state was (is) totally unusable for power users (I can see how it may be sufficient for casual users), and required some hacking to get gnome-panel-3 into a state sufficiently close to what it was in gnome-2. Gnome-shell was a lost cause.
    And by "unable for power users", you mean "unusable for yourself". Gnome Shell has some annoying faults (the new Alt-Tab behaviour most of all), but it works just fine for me - different from Gnome 2, but not significantly worse. And most of the annoyances can be easily fixed with extensions, some of which will hopefully become standard behaviour over time.

  8. #18
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    I am not a Red Hat employee, but I mostly agree with Rahul regarding Gnome-Shell. I've been using Linux for a decade and have tried Xfce, LXDE, KDE3, KDE4, and Gnome2. I've probably spent 70% of my time running a Gnome2 environment, 29% running KDE4, and 1% combined for the rest. In light of that experience, I am fairly well-adjusted to Gnome-Shell after only a month, and it hasn't crashed yet on my i965. I admit I haven't tried it for gaming though; I mostly just use web browser (and plugins like Flash and Java), IDE, text editor, and non-graphical programs.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by plonoma View Post
    Nobody noticed the Blender 1.47.

    That's such an old version, don't they mean Blender 2.47?
    The newest version of Blender is 2.58 and 2.59 is around the corner, so I guess/hope F16 will ship with 2.59. Probably just a typo.

    About G-S, I haven't actually tried it yet so can't comment directly on it. I just hope it's not like Unity... I don't understand the goal of having an UI that's mostly geared towards touch/mobile just because that is all the rage right now. The chance of me running a mobile device (phone/tablet and maybe even netbook) with G-S is as good as zero, but that is still the Gnome-devs (and Unity-devs) excuse for creating these interfaces for the desktop? I don't mind working differently on the desktop, having used E16 exclusively for 6 years, but having used Gnome2 for the last 4 years because it's easy to understand, convenient and fits mine and others workflow, I don't think Gnome is after pleasing their userbase, but their own curiosity. That's fine by me, but it doesn't surprise me to read all the negativity about it, and new users disregarding Linux (again). Luckily we have a lot of choices so if I'm not happy with Gnome 3.2 in F16, maybe I'll use E17 for the next 6 years

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by drag View Post
    This is possible.
    No you can't, until you have installed Gnome-Tweak-Tool, which remains an half-backed solution.
    Even with Gnome-Tweak-Tool you can only put custom launchers on the desktop, with no way to put them inside the Gnome-shell side dock.
    Using Gnome-Tweak-Tool to set the font filtering is also not an option on my laptop, because you haven't all the filtering options that was available in Gnome 2.x (and the proposed one doesn't fit to my screen).

    So.. you are really saying that installing Gnome-Tweak-Tool is a barrier to power users?
    I think you are being overly critical. Especially of a X.0 release. This is a damn sight more useful then Gnome 2.0 release was. Blows the KDE 4.0 release out of the water.
    It also features a fully scriptable (and extensible) desktop environment with a legitimate (widely known) full-turing language, a integrated debugging tool for extensions, as well as a vastly superior theme-ing engine to Gnome 2.x.
    It seems to me that people like to confuse "Have a huge Window with multiple tables 4000 sliders and buttons for every option under the sun" with something that is "Power user" friendly.
    Personally I think they did a fantastic job and I am looking forward to other improvements they are going to introduce in newer versions.
    Seriously ? If you want to have something easy to use, the first thing to avoid is to ask people to install extra software to do things that should be (and was) available by default.
    In its current state I consider Gnome 3 as a regression compared to my previous setting (Gnome2 + Compiz).
    I consider all the features I'm speaking about, like creating launchers, as basic ones. I'm sure that even the first Gnome was able to do it, this is not for power users.
    All the new features of Gnome 3 (CSS+JS support, extensions etc...) are great, but if it doesn't help me to do my work better than before it's worth nothing.
    The actual loss of basic features is really a dead-end to me, as it makes my daily use of the desktop painful (which I'm sure was the opposite aim of the developers).
    Last edited by spykes; 08-05-2011 at 08:23 AM. Reason: fixing words

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