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Thread: AMD To Support Coreboot On All Future CPUs

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ex-Cyber View Post
    That's not part of the project as such, though. It'll happen if/when more people and companies start taking an interest in coreboot. Red Hat wasn't founded by Linus.
    It's a chicken and egg problem. They won't provide paid support unless they get enough companies, and a lot of companies won't look at open source products without some sort of proprietary license and paid support.

    Our company is currently switching from WebLogic's Java App Server to tcServer. Why tcServer? Because it's a commercially supported version of Tomcat. If crap blows up, we have someone to ring up and yell at to fix. For a lot of organizations this is an important safety net.

    That's happened with a bunch of companies, usually because they're clueless about the requirements of copyleft licenses. I don't see how motherboard vendors are special here.
    In this case it's software that interacts with otherwise the same hardware. If Asus comes up with a spiffy way of overclocking a board, do you think they really want Gigabyte to get their hands on that?

    Why wouldn't the proprietary parts be in the payload? I doubt board vendors are differentiating their BIOSes with secret chipset configuration registers. libpayload is permissively licensed, so there shouldn't be a problem with shipping proprietary payloads. Besides, a lot of what motherboard companies are differentiating lately isn't really in the BIOS at all, but rather in Windows apps to configure settings and monitor performance.
    Well don't take my word for it:

    http://www.gigabyte.us/products/prod...px?pid=3856#ov

    Navigating through the BIOS to change system settings can be a daunting task for users not familiar with control “F”functions and mouse-less navigation. While some EFI BIOS try to address this with a mouse friendly environment, many implementations still lack a certain ease-of-use necessary for most people. With GIGABYTE Touch BIOS™, GIGABYTE engineers have completely re-imagined how users can interact with their BIOS, allowing for a more intuitive user experience. In fact, with a touch screen monitor, GIGABYTE Touch BIOS™ is as easy to use as most apps on your iPhone.
    http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/AMD...ir_IV_Extreme/

    Two BIOS ROM, Two BIOS settings, Twice the overclocking flexibility
    Flashback act as a SaveGame function for BIOS management. Go back to any other BIOS version you like!
    http://www.abit.com.tw/page/en/mothe...&fMTYPE=LGA775

    abit SoftMenu™
    The original jumperless motherboard design allows for CPU setting changes completely through the BIOS. For GigaOverclocking! Boost your PC's Performance by up to 50%. Convenient and easy-to-use fine tuning from within a self-explanatory BIOS menu.
    Many MB manufacturers pimp their "exclusive" BIOS features. Whether or not they are truly exclusive is another point, but if you told your president that you could switch to this fancy new system but you'd have to give away all the "exclusive" code that you wrote, who would do that? Coreboot has to re-license, even if it's seemingly stupid.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by locovaca View Post
    Many MB manufacturers pimp their "exclusive" BIOS features.
    I never said otherwise. My point is that the "exclusive" part tends to be either built into the hardware configuration (for which the main expense is hardware, and for which the support code would be small and highly board-specific) or based on UI enhancements (which would go into the payload).

    Whether or not they are truly exclusive is another point, but if you told your president that you could switch to this fancy new system but you'd have to give away all the "exclusive" code that you wrote, who would do that?
    On what basis would the "exclusive" code would have to be given away?

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by locovaca View Post
    It is, except that Coreboot has never made itself a serious alternative. As I said before, even if they magically get things working for a large number of boards, they still have to get some sort of support system in place.
    Huh? You mean like the support system put in place by Aware/phoenix/whatever? Oh wait... they have NO SUPPORT SYSTEM AT ALL, and not only that, their code is BLOB JUNK.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by droidhacker View Post
    Huh? You mean like the support system put in place by Aware/phoenix/whatever? Oh wait... they have NO SUPPORT SYSTEM AT ALL, and not only that, their code is BLOB JUNK.
    I thought he meant "support system" in a business sense for OEMs, i.e. companies that OEMs can outsource their BIOS development/QA to and/or harass/sue/etc. if something goes wrong. This sort of thing isn't totally nonexistent for coreboot (see e.g. Sage Electronic Engineering), but the market does appear to be much more developed for PhoenixBIOS and the like.

  5. #55
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    Most of the features of a modern BIOS are useless* anyways.

    I for one will not miss 16-bit Kruft mode VGA text based, Ill thought out buggy BIOS's with NO hope of anyone EVER updating again.

    It would be nice to be able to adjust usually 'hidden' subsystems (ACPI, System Management Mode, ect...).

    Better fan PWM control, suspend states that work better, fixes and workarounds for buggy hardware/firmware.

  6. #56
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    Coreboot is open-source. You can change whatever you want and there are already quite some motherboards with Coreboot support.

  7. #57
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    Unhappy

    I think Coreboot will come to prominence as people/OEM's realize what uEFI really means.

    Total abandonment of 'legacy' hardware AND software!

    Think about it:

    If you have a server, odds are, you are using one of the below:

    Gigabit NIC, SAS RAID/HBA, Fiberchannel Controller

    -Can't PXE boot without the NIC being supported in the new EFI firmware!
    -Can't Boot OS from Raid Card without the controller's BIOS extensions!
    -Can't do.... several of the above without FC Controller's BIOS extensions either!

    I've realized uEFI will just make the same (or worse) mistakes than the original real-mode x86 BIOS,
    vendors will never make the effort to improve it - other than to add marketing chrome or shiny bling
    (which is generally consumer grade garbage-ware).

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by locovaca View Post
    It takes 8 minutes from password entry to a workable desktop.
    But you have to admit that this is a nice feature to have, which is why RHEL has copied it for 6.x. 10 minutes from power button to a functioning desktop gives you an extra break in the morning, right when you need it most.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by locovaca View Post
    It's a chicken and egg problem.
    No, it's a catch-22.

    Considder evolution, where you draw the line between species based on DNA. At some point one declares "From this DNA on, it's a chicken.". Given that a chicken grows from an egg; the egg was there first.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by V!NCENT View Post
    Given that a chicken grows from an egg; the egg was there first.
    That assumes that the first chicken hatched from an egg. If it in fact was the result of a mutation of an animal which didn't hatch from an egg, then it could be said that the chicken came first. I find that unlikely though; for that to have happened, the chicken's ancestor would have to had not hatched from an egg. I suspect that is not the case, but I don't know for sure. :/

    I agree that it's a catch 22.
    Last edited by Nobu; 12-24-2011 at 06:28 PM.

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