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Thread: Khronos Group Posts Their Vulkan + SPIR-V Q&A

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    Default Khronos Group Posts Their Vulkan + SPIR-V Q&A

    Phoronix: Khronos Group Posts Their Vulkan + SPIR-V Q&A

    Beyond posting their OpenCL 2.1 technical overview session to YouTube, the Khronos Group has now uploaded their Vulkan and SPIR-V question and answer session too for those wishing to learn more about this new graphics API and graphics/compute intermediate representation...

    http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...lkan-SPIR-V-QA

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    13:29 "all the memory vulkan needs will be allocated by your allocator"
    f yea !
    more i learn about it, the better it looks

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    So the AMD guy said, Vulkan is basically Mantle. Now I'm wondering, if the mantle based games as Beyond Earth will get ported to Vulkan and thus be available on Linux as an alternative to their OpenGL ports. This might be nice, as the Mantle versions tend to be better optimized than the OpenGL versions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oleid View Post
    So the AMD guy said, Vulkan is basically Mantle. Now I'm wondering, if the mantle based games as Beyond Earth will get ported to Vulkan and thus be available on Linux as an alternative to their OpenGL ports. This might be nice, as the Mantle versions tend to be better optimized than the OpenGL versions.
    DICE already said they'll port Frostbite to Vulkan. they said something in line of being more or less trivial. but, if you'll see it on Linux or not, that is completely separate question. even if answer is yes, it probably won't be before SteamOS is released

    also, it was said many time that AZDO optimized GL was already near "bare metal". but, if you look from another perspective, GL drivers differ too much to be able to use it. Vulkan is AZDO like by default and all drivers should handle it from start

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    Quote Originally Posted by oleid View Post
    So the AMD guy said, Vulkan is basically Mantle. Now I'm wondering, if the mantle based games as Beyond Earth will get ported to Vulkan and thus be available on Linux as an alternative to their OpenGL ports. This might be nice, as the Mantle versions tend to be better optimized than the OpenGL versions.
    From the developer's perspective, is there a reason to do so. Just to be faster is not a business reason to turn this. Get more publicity IS a reason to turn this on. Which is probably the reason they ported to Linux in the first place.

    Will it actually increase their customer base? Here's where it gets interesting. If everything we are hoping from Vulkan is true, and we get first class drivers across the board from Nvidia, AMD, Intel and all the ARM chips, then the case can be made that it will increase the number of users reached with very little overhead in changing the engine, since it already supports Mantle, and Vulkan and Mantle share the same programming model.

    If Steam Machines sell 500 thousand units, then that will be 500 thousand guaranteed customer availability with Vulkan support. (Did anybody else notice that for Steam Machines to support Vulkan, Vulkan should be finished and going before Nov.?) While 500 thousand is not a lot, and not everyone of them will buy the game, 500 thousand potential customers for a game that has already been shipped, and has presumably steadily tread along the obsolescence time line of games, a bump like that can be a juicy target.

    This is still a $50 - $70 (USD) dollar game so a maximum return for the work could be up to $35 (USD) million. But lets assume it is 10% of that could still be $3.5 (USD) million. These types of incentives are what motivate game companies.

    Then, they get all the publicity involved with SteamOS/Steam Machines, Vulkan, I presume there will be a battle between DX12 only on Windows 10, and Vulkan will support XP and up, and Linux, OS X, iOS, and Android. (I hope. It will make a stronger statement that way. But a good subset of these will be supported.) And the stars will be aligned for not just Beyond Earth, but for many more titles as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by justmy2cents View Post
    DICE already said they'll port Frostbite to Vulkan. they said something in line of being more or less trivial. but, if you'll see it on Linux or not, that is completely separate question. even if answer is yes, it probably won't be before SteamOS is released

    also, it was said many time that AZDO optimized GL was already near "bare metal". but, if you look from another perspective, GL drivers differ too much to be able to use it. Vulkan is AZDO like by default and all drivers should handle it from start
    FYI, Beyond Earth is already on Linux. If they already have a Mantle subsystem, then porting should indeed be non-trivial. They would need to validate against the Vulkan implementation, then ensure their port to Linux didn't mess with that pipeline. Its not quite as easy as flipping a switch, but it is doable relatively quickly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dragorth View Post
    FYI, Beyond Earth is already on Linux. If they already have a Mantle subsystem, then porting should indeed be non-trivial. They would need to validate against the Vulkan implementation, then ensure their port to Linux didn't mess with that pipeline. Its not quite as easy as flipping a switch, but it is doable relatively quickly.
    first off, what i was referring to was comment from DICE, which said they are similar

    next thing, Beyond Earth is on Linux, true. but, who brought it? not the same company as original. if you check on reddit, you'll see Ian from Aspyr doing comments like this
    http://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming...s_post/cp5g70r

    in general, it probably makes no sense in porting until spec is finished even for those involved in Vulkan which DICE was part of it as well as being part of making Mantle. they also released Mantle based BF4, so i'd say it is reasonable to believe person like this would be the best judge in how much work it is required to get from one to another.

    it would probably make much less sense to port now for a company like Aspyr that will hit the books once it is finished
    Last edited by justmy2cents; 03-12-2015 at 04:53 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dragorth View Post
    FYI, Beyond Earth is already on Linux. If they already have a Mantle subsystem, then porting should indeed be non-trivial. They would need to validate against the Vulkan implementation, then ensure their port to Linux didn't mess with that pipeline. Its not quite as easy as flipping a switch, but it is doable relatively quickly.
    Did you mean it should be trivial?

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    Quote Originally Posted by nanonyme View Post
    Did you mean it should be trivial?
    First, I don't consider any programing to be trivial when it involves codebase as large as these games. So, no, I didn't mean it will be trivial. You could say, however, that it would be trivial, once the drivers are available, compared to the initial OpenGL port, or the initial Mantle port, since the largest part of the work is done, and all that is left is fine tuning.

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    still accepting extensions=fail.

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