Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 32

Thread: The New R300 Register Allocator Is Still Being Developed

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    143

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mattst88 View Post
    Good grief. Stop complaining about what other people choose to spend their free time on.
    I am not complaining about his work...

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    1,647

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by marek View Post
    It will always be a hobby project as long as it's free.
    The kernel has managed to do something that the graphics people haven't. It managed to create a financially sustainable ecosystem around it that allows it to be free and open and -more important- support the people working on it. At least some of them.

    This was presumably achieved because the kernel was cheaper and better in every way compared to the competition.

    And thats the challenge to the graphics people. Can they create an ecosystem that can sustain itself and be attractive for companies or whatever to put their money on?

    Wayland is getting some attention. Intel is employing the main dev and nokia people hack on it. Also they got meego running on it but thats only part of the graphic stack. Mesa/G3D needs to find a way of becoming more attractive.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    319

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 89c51 View Post
    The kernel has managed to do something that the graphics people haven't. It managed to create a financially sustainable ecosystem around it that allows it to be free and open and -more important- support the people working on it. At least some of them.

    This was presumably achieved because the kernel was cheaper and better in every way compared to the competition.

    And thats the challenge to the graphics people. Can they create an ecosystem that can sustain itself and be attractive for companies or whatever to put their money on?

    Wayland is getting some attention. Intel is employing the main dev and nokia people hack on it. Also they got meego running on it but thats only part of the graphic stack. Mesa/G3D needs to find a way of becoming more attractive.
    You seem to think that somehow the open source stack will die if it doesn't achieve this. It won't there will always be people willing to hack on open source graphics drivers, there is a sustainable ecosystem its just no producing things at the same level as dedicated 100 man teams, but the thing is that doesn't directly affect the developer ecosystem. Some distros cannot ship binary drivers no matter what they do, so there will always exist a market for open source drivers. Now they may not have the featureset that people on here care about but that doesn't actually matter to the sustainability.

    Dave.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    1,647

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by airlied View Post
    You seem to think that somehow the open source stack will die if it doesn't achieve this. It won't there will always be people willing to hack on open source graphics drivers, there is a sustainable ecosystem its just no producing things at the same level as dedicated 100 man teams, but the thing is that doesn't directly affect the developer ecosystem. Some distros cannot ship binary drivers no matter what they do, so there will always exist a market for open source drivers. Now they may not have the featureset that people on here care about but that doesn't actually matter to the sustainability.

    Dave.
    No. Nothing will die. As you wrote there will always be people willing to hack. My post was only a thought on how it can be enhanced in a way that will be beneficial for the devs -jobs & steady income- and for the users -features-. This lack of manpower is hurting everything and the best way to attract people is money.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    151

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by airlied View Post
    You seem to think that somehow the open source stack will die if it doesn't achieve this. It won't there will always be people willing to hack on open source graphics drivers, there is a sustainable ecosystem its just no producing things at the same level as dedicated 100 man teams
    When AMD or Intel releases a new CPU, Linux supports it with little to no effort as long as you don't need it to take advantage of new instructions and such. The same can not be said of graphics, unless drivers are written for each new generation they won't work at all. Of course code doesn't disappear but if you measure the quality of drivers compared to how recent the generation is, then yes it might certainly regress not just stagnate.

    The R500 is now the 5th most recent generation after N. Islands, Evergreen, R700 and R600, when Southern Islands is released they'd be the 6th most recent. Unless new code is written fast enough to keep up Linux will only function well on graphics cards found in museums and not on recent PCs. So I disagree with you, there's certainly a critical mass and below that things get worse, not better. And vendors willing to disclose their specs, of course - I think if AMD changed their mind you'd agree things would go downhill, fast.

    That said, I don't think now is the time to be glum, it looks a lot better today than back in 2007 when AMD first opened their specs. Back then I seem to remember everyone serious being on closed nVidia/ATI drivers, while the few people on open Intel drivers just wanted to get a picture. Now the graphics stack is starting to look like the 21st century and the generations of backlog the open source team has had is shrinking. But then when you start at the bottom, I guess there's no other way than up either...

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    1,647

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kjella View Post
    When AMD or Intel releases a new CPU, Linux supports it with little to no effort as long as you don't need it to take advantage of new instructions and such. The same can not be said of graphics, unless drivers are written for each new generation they won't work at all. Of course code doesn't disappear but if you measure the quality of drivers compared to how recent the generation is, then yes it might certainly regress not just stagnate.

    The R500 is now the 5th most recent generation after N. Islands, Evergreen, R700 and R600, when Southern Islands is released they'd be the 6th most recent. Unless new code is written fast enough to keep up Linux will only function well on graphics cards found in museums and not on recent PCs. So I disagree with you, there's certainly a critical mass and below that things get worse, not better. And vendors willing to disclose their specs, of course - I think if AMD changed their mind you'd agree things would go downhill, fast.
    From my limited understanding of HW i get the impression that x86 chips are more close to each other than the various GPUs from different manufacturers. Even if thats not true the manufacturers cannot afford their CPUs not running on linux and hence they play with the kernel rules. They all provide patches to the mainline kernel and don't depend on volunteers.

    In the graphics side of things most companies do their own thing. They either have blobs or do their own thing without trying to work on a widely accepted solution (Intel situation with classic Mesa). At least AMD provides documents and has a few devs on the payroll even thought its not enough to keep up with the fast paced GPU development.

    What slightly bugs me in the whole situation is that noone has tried to address the problem. ie the FSF, the Linux foundation or all the open source foundation can probably pay a dev or two -+ ask the community to chip in- in order to get a feature full OpenCL or OpenGL state tracker for G3D (or whatever is needed).

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    151

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 89c51 View Post
    From my limited understanding of HW i get the impression that x86 chips are more close to each other than the various GPUs from different manufacturers. (...) What slightly bugs me in the whole situation is that noone has tried to address the problem.
    CPUs are pretty much just hardware with a fixed interface, they must run low-level x86/x86_64 code compiled by others. Graphics companies can change their hardware and software at will, as long as they end up with something DirectX/OpenGL compliant. The AMD hardware and software guys talk to each other, we change the hardware so and you change the drivers so. There's no stable hardware interface and that's not really a problem that can be "solved". All you can hope for is to have enough open source developers to shadow what the binary driver developers are doing - or at least the most essential parts.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    5,411

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by benmoran View Post
    Yes exactly.

    But... I have an HD5770, and I REALLY don't want to install Catalyst. I think I might do it for a little while though, just to play the new Frozenbyte Humble Bundle games.
    i do have a hd4650 and hd5670 right now and I don't want to install the Catalyst. and no i also buy the humble indie bundle and i still do not install the catalyst

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    5,411

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kjella View Post
    The R500 is now the 5th most recent generation after N. Islands, Evergreen, R700 and R600, when Southern Islands is released they'd be the 6th most recent. Unless new code is written fast enough to keep up Linux will only function well on graphics cards found in museums and not on recent PCs. So I disagree with you, there's certainly a critical mass and below that things get worse, not better. And vendors willing to disclose their specs, of course - I think if AMD changed their mind you'd agree things would go downhill, fast.
    you don't get an important point... an R700 is an r600 with extras and a southern island chip is an r600 with extras and an northern island chip is an r600 with extras.

    the general architecture chances are only r300,r600,r900

    and r900 will come in 2012 as a complete new architecture without any r600 parts.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    6,613

    Default

    Maybe better get a nv card to play with nouveau instead, much faster

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •