A Bounty For Gallium3D On Haiku OS

[RealNC]

May I ask what's so special about this video? Most OSes have been doing that for years:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ImW0-MgR8I

[Thatguy]

Yawn! Wake me up when Haiku gets adobe flash support (probably never)

there is a buggy version of gnash that works for video playback. Flatly, Flash will see its end with html5 and webm/vp8.

Its not a matter of if, its a matter of howsoon.

They only people who don't want flash to go is adobe, even microsoft knows that the largest cuase of problems on Windows PC, like MAC and linux is FLASH.

soon enough it'll be gone and it will be a deprecated technology.

BTW I don't make use of flash game,videos but others do. I understand the issue you are raising and it is valid. But the interwebz are responding with something better. Alot of rich dynamic web content is flash based.

time will tell.

[Thatguy]

May I ask what's so special about this video? Most OSes have been doing that for years:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ImW0-MgR8I

Yawn eye candy is weak, I want my click back. Can comwiz do any of that without hardware acceleration ?

nope.

that neverball game ran at 30fps solid while I was playing videos.

on a software CPU only renderer.

[mugginz]

Yawn eye candy is weak, I want my click back. Can comwiz do any of that without hardware acceleration ?

Isn't the point that Linux is befitted by having hardware accel?

Wouldn't you like Haiku to have hardware accel as well?

nope.

that neverball game ran at 30fps solid while I was playing videos.

on a software CPU only renderer.

How would that work on a 5760x1200 desktop?

Don't you like the idea of Haiku gaining hardware accel via a $2000 carrot. Don't you think a hardware accelerated desktop is superior to a software rendered one for most people?

Also, what indicators are suggesting to you that Haiku's usage is going to surpass that of Linux and do you have any time frames for when this will occur?

[smitty3268]

Thatguy, that video is pathetic in terms of trying to show something impressive.

Every other modern OS is able to do far more than what is being shown in that video with ease.

The burden of proof is on you to prove that the same test doesn't work correctly on other OS's, because for all of us it does.

I went ahead and ran 10 720p videos on my system at once, and all were completely fluid. Also while watching live thumnails of them playing in the taskbar. CPU usage was under 50% and you couldn't even tell anything was running as far as how responsive the system was.

[smitty3268]

Thatguy, that video is pathetic in terms of trying to show something impressive.

Every other modern OS is able to do far more than what is being shown in that video with ease.

The burden of proof is on you to prove that the same test doesn't work correctly on other OS's, because for all of us it does.

I went ahead and ran 10 720p videos on my system at once, and all were completely fluid. Also while watching live thumnails of them playing in the taskbar. CPU usage was under 50% and you couldn't even tell anything was running as far as how responsive the system was.

Correction, with 10 720p videos it was actually around 60% cpu. Still not even a hint of slowness. That's on a q6600 (quad core 2.4 GHz, it was a pretty fast cpu when i bought it about 3 years ago but i consider it very average by today's desktop standards).

[XorEaxEax]

Yawn eye candy is weak, I want my click back. Can comwiz do any of that without hardware acceleration ?

nope.

Of course it can. The same software renderer (MESA) runs in Linux aswell (it was PORTED to Haiku). Haiku is tuned for responsiveness, but it's NOT faster than Linux (which is tuned for throughput). Those few benchmarks that have surfaced, like the compilation timing someone did saw Haiku trailing the other tested systems (freebsd, linux, opensolaris) by a decent margin. BUT THAT'S OK, the reason I want to use Haiku as my desktop OS is because IT IS tuned for responsiveness, and because it features an integrated desktop and a strong official API to use for development and is designed for desktop use from the ground up. It will not beat Linux as a server, and it will not beat Linux for raw speed, and it will not beat Linux in being applicable for tons of machines/devices from supercomputers to videogame consoles to smartphones to wristwatches etc etc. But in my opinion it will be superior to Linux (and imo Windows) as a desktop experience, and that is what I want it for.

As for eyecandy, look up Enlightement. It did nice effects like window shadows etc on Linux back when I was running a P166 using VESA (which is Haiku's fallback).

[drag]

I am sure that most of the developers are sane, but most of the Haiku loudmouth supporters are delusional. They can't tell the difference between a display server that is a evolutionary dead end versus one that is more advanced then other people.

They think that somehow requiring the developer to do the rendering of the application GUI in a separate thread is going to make everything OMG responsive and superior.

Meanwhile Linux can multithread faster, scale higher, and drive the hardware harder then anything BeOS came close to doing.

I don't want to make it sound like I think that Haiku developers are idiots or wasting their time. I don't think that at all. If they want to work on it it is their own business. If they are happy then that makes me happy.

But a far quicker way to accomplish what they wanted would of been to simply take Linux, cut out all the Unix bullshit, and put their idea of a good IU on top of it. They could even of replicated BeOS's insane display management entirely. There is no reason why they would be forced to use X.

But really. Good luck to them.

[XorEaxEax]

But a far quicker way to accomplish what they wanted would of been to simply take Linux, cut out all the Unix bullshit, and put their idea of a good IU on top of it. They could even of replicated BeOS's insane display management entirely. There is no reason why they would be forced to use X.
But really. Good luck to them.

Not sure what you mean by the 'Unix bullshit', but if that pertains to POSIX then no, they would not cut that out since Beos very much relies on POSIX compability. As for maintaining their own fork of the Linux kernel, I don't see the upside to that. Maintaining a fork of such a fast developing kernel like Linux must be a ****ing nightmare unless you can afford a bunch of developers doing that full-time (like Google for Android). They are in my opinion much better off having their own kernel where THEY can set the pace. Add to this the fact that Haiku/Beos is directly aimed at the desktop, I'd say building off the Linux kernel is not the ideal choice since it is NOT aimed at the desktop. Anyone who has compared Vanilla Linux to a Con Kolivas Patched Kernel can most likely vouch for that, and even with the CK-patches I don't get a desktop that matches Haiku/Beos in responsiveness. So no, I disagree, I think the Haiku devs made the right choice in having their own kernel (well, based of NewOS that is).

[drag]

Not sure what you mean by the 'Unix bullshit', but if that pertains to POSIX then no, they would not cut that out since Beos very much relies on POSIX compability.

I mean caring a whole lot about the Unix side of things. Init, crontab, being able to run apache web servers. Shit they don't care about they shouldn't care about.

As for maintaining their own fork of the Linux kernel, I don't see the upside to that.

I don't see were I said they should fork the kernel.

They are in my opinion much better off having their own kernel where THEY can set the pace.

If the pace they want to maintain is set at 'Glacial' then that would be a good idea.

It really depends on what their goals are. if they want to make their own OS as a hobby and control everything then Linux is obviously a stupid choice. However if they want to support a shitload of hardware and performance 'for free' and spend their time concentrating on developing application APIs, interesting desktop software and GUIs as quickly as possible then it would allow them to spend their time more wisely.

If the license is a issue then they would still probably be better off using something like FreeBSD's kernel.

Kernels are boring low-level crud. They are just there to deal with the mundane BS for other applications. Applications are what users care about...

I'd say building off the Linux kernel is not the ideal choice since it is NOT aimed at the desktop. Anyone who has compared Vanilla Linux to a Con Kolivas Patched Kernel can most likely vouch for that, and even with the CK-patches I don't get a desktop that matches Haiku/Beos in responsiveness.

You're highly susceptible to suggestion. Find some benchmarks were you can properly measure latency and you'll be disappointed. Properly configured and setup Linux is used in many areas of computing were latency and responsiveness is critical.

The whole claim to fame for BeOS 'responsiveness' is that the rendering of the application GUI is handled in a separate thread from the main application logic. That way the desktop is responsive even when the system is under high loads. You could do that on Linux just fine, even if people generally don't. It's a design choice for the display manager.

Even if you don't like X that isn't a problem as you can use your own environment on top of Linux. With things like Gallium that is getting easier and easier to get acceleration without X as time goes on.