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Thread: Another Look At The Latest Nouveau Gallium3D Driver

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazycheese View Post
    Lets take BMW. Lets take they make it opensource - providing documentation. Even if they own patents and copyrights to the car itself, they produce clean result where anyone can exchange unneeded parts, be sure whats under the hood, improve, suggest ideas etc.
    lets say they make it opensource? then they hold copyrights? what now copyleft or copyright? You can suggest ideas as you like if they dont like it they say fuck you.

    Quote Originally Posted by crazycheese View Post
    You see Im not talking about making own car AT ALL? You can. If you wish. But if you are not hardware expert and work as barber, you put money there and have it.
    you have to see amd sells not cards they sell chips, so say they make 5 dollar win on a chip, so lets say we 5% linux users, and from this 5% lets say 1% want to play (proprietary) games or want to look 1080p videos. So lets take the selling of the dx11 chips till now they said it was 35mio chips, so take this number 35mio / 100 = 0,35mio = 350.000 Dollars, how much developers do you think can you pay per year from this amount of money I think they maybe even pay more as they earn from this. And they dont want only to come to zero they want to make a win. So if you want a driver like you said it as a barber pay for it pay 1-10million dollars and you become a good driver.

    And if you go to the car, install your linux-distribution you want on their bord computer and ask for support. they even will hinder you to put software on the small computers (integrated) thats in the car.

    Quote Originally Posted by crazycheese View Post
    Linux is not 500 oses. It is one os with open specs.
    did I say that, why should they support linux but other free oses not?

    Quote Originally Posted by crazycheese View Post
    If BSD people want and have manpower they too, can port it to BSD. If they pay money to AMD and achieve specific amount, AMD will do this job for them.
    So BSD people should pay money or make it by themself, but you want one linux driver from amd? seriosly?

    Quote Originally Posted by crazycheese View Post
    I think opensource is not only successful due to effort distribution, but also because of "pay and get what you pay for" due to open model.
    Yes If YOU pay somebody the price developing a very good driver would cost (serveral man-years of work) you would get it, it have not even has to be people that work for amd who make you that driver because the doku to make such driver is out. And dont say you paid enough with your lets say 200 dollars for a grafics card

    We live in a capatalism or something close to it, so you cant hope that a company does something or massively to make it a better world (in this small area) and AMD does this so thats huge, look around what do we get from others, ask them slap nvidia that they other nothing at all. We have to be happy that they not sued the nouvou developers.

    Quote Originally Posted by crazycheese View Post
    So if AMD sees its cards as Windows only graphical accelerators, it should also put on its box - "Windows only graphical accelerator". Then, it will simply not be bought by those seeking different OS.
    did you really not know what you get when you bought it? did you think the free drivers would get you as much fps like the windows driver in games? When you did think that you must be very stupid then nobody amd advertises for that. Maybe but only maybe the phoronix did produce a hype that was not accurate to the proprietary drivers, but they never said if you want to play the free drivers are perfekt for this. And then AMD has not done something wrong because phoronix is no site from amd.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazycheese View Post
    Linux is not 500 oses. It is one os with open specs.
    True but there are many variations out there with different implementations and lacks standardization in many key areas and what is attempted to be standardized often gets ignored (the FHS for example).

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackiwid View Post
    lets say they make it opensource? then they hold copyrights? what now copyleft or copyright? You can suggest ideas as you like if they dont like it they say fuck you.
    Opening specifications has no relation with reassigning the owner. You can replace "BMW" with "Mercedes Benz" if you want so.


    Quote Originally Posted by blackiwid View Post
    you have to see amd sells not cards they sell chips, so say they make 5 dollar win on a chip, so lets say we 5% linux users, and from this 5% lets say 1% want to play (proprietary) games or want to look 1080p videos. So lets take the selling of the dx11 chips till now they said it was 35mio chips, so take this number 35mio / 100 = 0,35mio = 350.000 Dollars, how much developers do you think can you pay per year from this amount of money I think they maybe even pay more as they earn from this. And they dont want only to come to zero they want to make a win. So if you want a driver like you said it as a barber pay for it pay 1-10million dollars and you become a good driver.
    AMD does not make 5$ with a chip. If you know real percentage AMD gets from each sold OEM card, please provide it or stop disinforming.
    The barber should first know what he wants, second know how much it costs, third know how much people want it as well.
    Following your logic, you should have no trousers. Because you should have bought THE WHOLE FACTORY by yourself to make 1 pants.


    Quote Originally Posted by blackiwid View Post
    And if you go to the car, install your linux-distribution you want on their bord computer and ask for support. they even will hinder you to put software on the small computers (integrated) thats in the car.
    It does not have to be necessary linux. But it would be really awesome if I could upgrade dvd/mp3 player of my car with ogg support. And the manufacturer would take it upstream if he wishes so.

    Quote Originally Posted by blackiwid View Post
    did I say that, why should they support linux but other free oses not?
    They should support those who pay. Those who pay, programm, improve, help should get their result and not have it wasted in irrelevant direction.

    Quote Originally Posted by blackiwid View Post
    So BSD people should pay money or make it by themself, but you want one linux driver from amd? seriosly?
    I provided the way for them to get a driver. Buy enough cards and mark them as BSD to get more factory attention.

    Quote Originally Posted by blackiwid View Post
    Yes If YOU pay somebody the price developing a very good driver would cost (serveral man-years of work) you would get it, it have not even has to be people that work for amd who make you that driver because the doku to make such driver is out. And dont say you paid enough with your lets say 200 dollars for a grafics card
    You misinterpret every mentioned sentence.
    I always PAY if I need human work. ALWAYS. With my own force alone, with my wallet or combined with similar thinkers. You dont need to reinvent economics.

    But only the maker of chip can make best driver and it is their job in first place - so people should support them. And you have more people actually using linux than hacking it. If some feature is absent, people can manage to bring that feature even by themself and it will be taken upstream if AMD customers will profit from it.

    Quote Originally Posted by blackiwid View Post
    We live in a capatalism or something close to it, so you cant hope that a company does something or massively to make it a better world (in this small area) and AMD does this so thats huge, look around what do we get from others, ask them slap nvidia that they other nothing at all. We have to be happy that they not sued the nouvou developers.
    They MAY sue noveau developers. In all 3 cases with distributions building noveau driver in the kernel I had Xorg refusing to start and had to hack around. If a company does NOT support it - it does not support it. If a company supports it - it should do it adequately, especially when small numbers come in and sharper calculations should be performed. This is called efficiency. Otherwise it is just a decoy to hold hot-dog infront of the dog - so it starts running without ever achieving that hot-dog. If its not the case as well, then it is money waste.

    If I go out and want a hardware, I want that hardware working.
    If driver takes 7 years to support my new hardware efficiently - purchasing that hardware is NOT an option for non-gfx developer. Which is 99,999% of the world population. And a corresponding question will arise - where will my money go if I purchase and get NOTHING. This may be open, as well as closed source; but opensource is A LOT better.

    Quote Originally Posted by blackiwid View Post
    did you really not know what you get when you bought it? did you think the free drivers would get you as much fps like the windows driver in games? When you did think that you must be very stupid then nobody amd advertises for that. Maybe but only maybe the phoronix did produce a hype that was not accurate to the proprietary drivers, but they never said if you want to play the free drivers are perfekt for this. And then AMD has not done something wrong because phoronix is no site from amd.
    If I would get what I expected, I would not start the question in first place.
    But, if you know all this, please apply to AMD as linux programmer or market analyst to make it more efficient.
    If you don't know how to make it more efficient, why do you waste your time with me?

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    Quote Originally Posted by deanjo View Post
    True but there are many variations out there with different implementations and lacks standardization in many key areas and what is attempted to be standardized often gets ignored (the FHS for example).
    I don't think we really need that standardization unless we need it. If people build new Y-org server, they should be aware about amount of work to be done. And they should be allowed to do this work. FHS has had many things that were not acceptable in some cases. Those who went different way understood all pros/cons. And there is always movement, if FHS didn't understood that too and didn't change as well, this is hardly a standard. So, if .deb, the outcaster, would be found out to be more advantageous in the real life, FHS in its new revision should have switched to .deb.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crazycheese View Post
    I don't think we really need that standardization unless we need it. If people build new Y-org server, they should be aware about amount of work to be done. And they should be allowed to do this work. FHS has had many things that were not acceptable in some cases. Those who went different way understood all pros/cons. And there is always movement, if FHS didn't understood that too and didn't change as well, this is hardly a standard. So, if .deb, the outcaster, would be found out to be more advantageous in the real life, FHS in its new revision should have switched to .deb.
    I don't think that switching to the deb way has any advantages. The FHS has been around for a long time and if anything it is deb that should come back to the standard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by deanjo View Post
    I don't think that switching to the deb way has any advantages. The FHS has been around for a long time and if anything it is deb that should come back to the standard.
    Did RPM has dependency hell corrected? And even like with OpenSuse vs RHEL, although both RPM, they wont be compatible. Different compiler versions, different kernels, different configure options, different naming. I adhere more to exherbo way - standardization where standardization makes sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crazycheese View Post
    Did RPM has dependency hell corrected? And even like with OpenSuse vs RHEL, although both RPM, they wont be compatible. Different compiler versions, different kernels, different configure options, different naming. I adhere more to exherbo way - standardization where standardization makes sense.
    What the hell does rpm's have to do with FHS? I think you are confusing FHS with LSB.

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    Here is what FHS is:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesys...archy_Standard

    and btw, RPM has it's advantages over deb as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by deanjo View Post
    Here is what FHS is:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesys...archy_Standard

    and btw, RPM has it's advantages over deb as well.
    I use neither now, but RPM made much more headache for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by deanjo View Post
    What the hell does rpm's have to do with FHS? I think you are confusing FHS with LSB.
    Yep, sorry. I have same attitude towards FHS. If you modify, be sure to correct the breakage. If it has sense use $VARS to define where which folder should go. Some distributions as Gobo or Exherbo were made exactly to break things(and invent better this way).

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    Quote Originally Posted by crazycheese View Post
    I use neither now, but RPM made much more headache for me.
    Modern package management (zypper being the perfect example) has pretty much killed the old RPM hell issues of yore.

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