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Thread: To the AMD people: Money wasted.

  1. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by eldar View Post
    Why do you think that being able to play games on Wine is possible because of some unofficial features supported by NVIDIA? Wine relies only on OpenGL and that's all. The fact that AMD chips can't cope with that only means bugs in the drivers, nothing else. Why call guy a troll, if he just expresses his frustration, and he has an example of another manufacturer that got it all right.
    Thank you.

  2. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazycheese View Post
    Having GPU accelerate CPU operations - compiling, booting, browsing, vector gfx(adobe,svg); DVI output, multimonitor connectivity; and 3D - compiz, 3D games.
    I could do all that with my old card. I bought a new card for improving my gaming. I see you got gaming in your list too...


    Quote Originally Posted by crazycheese View Post
    You have no idea what opensource is and how it works do you?
    Opensource is a method to make money both more efficiently(as in not staying in coffers, but working), more decentric and faster.

    What you probably see as opensource, and what it is not, is part piracy and part lazyness(what most of pirates do, you included).

    So when government finally is bribed by "intellectual property" owners and when it issues laws, you will go in jail for downloading any copyrighted material if you need it and cannot afford it. What will you do if microsoft doc is the only accepted format in electronic correspondence and you cannot afford buying word, but want to write a resume for a job?? What is if you are required to purchase a lot of software and pay a lot of royalties monthly to do basic things such as having basic TV and basic communications via internet? This is one part.

    The next part is that a guy, using opensource software with monthly 1000 on development reason for similar result is cheaper for a company to hire, than a guy using 100,000 proprietary software per month license.

    AMD is selling you hardware, which is required by software. And developing software requires SAME amount of money as developing hardware, building houses, growing food and stock trading. The only difference between opensource and proprietary is that opensource clearly distinguishes between information and matter and attempts to connect them the most efficient way for every parties, where proprietary is enslaves information in matter and seeks for the most efficient way for the slaver(owner) only. The most efficient way for the slaver is having monopoly, controlling everything including laws, controlling standarts, forcing people for no possible choice but his product and then charging them to maximum extent for no work.

    The best situation would be yourself born and already own corporation money for your birth, breathing and "presence" tax. See Druuge in UQM.

    To them, money is not an "oil" to make trading better, it is power to control.

    A development of film incl payments for staff costs 0,50$ per person if divided by average amount of people ready to watch it. Burning a copy for each single person on DVD incl DVD-case costs no more than 0,40$. You could have legal film from Hollywood for 0,90$ each DVD, but you are paying 30$ on start and 15$ for old titles.
    22$ - 0,90$ = 21,10$ pure income.
    From 21,10$ pure income from each DVD, put 5$ in further marketing brainwash, 5$ in bribery for copyright laws, 2$ in making patents - the rest comes into corporation coffers.

    If there were opensource development, you would pay only 0,90$ for each title if you like it to happen.
    Thank you for enlightening me to all that.
    I'm saying that THEY PROBABLY SEE OPENSOURCE AS EASY PIRACY AND DO NOT WANT TO HELP THAT GROW. They.

  3. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazycheese View Post
    There is no major difference in having disc with drivers and having official driver in repository. Actually later one is more progressive - you will only need to boot in VESA once; and actually you dont even need that - kernel could boot, check hardware, report it to udev, udev would be asked by some foo, which will in turn fetch all drivers from internet and insert them into kernel live as it continues to boot.

    You will only need to put hardware in, and it will be already usable and on actual stand without any manual intervention right on first boot. Working network connection as only requirement.

    Btw, "half empty glass" is optimist. Realist is "glass is enough for water"
    When I said "driver with a companion disk" I meant "driver already ready when you buy card".

  4. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by eldar View Post
    The only thing I can think of is they might be using NVIDIA-specific openGL extensions, but I've always thought that most of them are standardised(so the become ARB_*) or ATI has counterparts. But anyway it's good that situation get's improved. If everyone keeps buying NVIDIA, there won't be a chance for ATI cards to be supported at all.
    Sadly it's not quite as simple as using extensions specific to one manufacturer - it's a case of implementations of the standard differing. Most simple programs won't see it, but wine is quite a beast and such differences are exposed. There's also the case of the programmer sticking to the opengl specification - if you don't (and to be fair, it can sometimes be easier and/or quicker not to) then you'll program around whatever bugs exist for your own hardware+software setup - which in early days was mostly nvidia for the wine devs.
    This is changing now that AMD's drivers (and here I'm only referring to the proprietary OpenGL implementation) are up to the task too. I've not used the open source drivers yet (kind of need full OpenGL 3.x and GLSL 1.4+ for what I'm up to atm).

  5. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr James View Post
    No I am not satisfied and obviously if you read anything I have posted, I do know a thing or two in Linux so yeah, I can duel boot no problem. The problem is I hate windows and the associated crap that comes with it and am able to do everything I need in Linux.
    Then why do you need DirectInput, Direct3d, DirectSound, and the rest of the associated crap?

    Just use the native Linux stuff. You're insisting on running half of Windows on top of your Linux. If you don't want to crap, then drop the crap, don't emulate it and blame the drivers.

  6. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by mirv View Post
    Sadly it's not quite as simple as using extensions specific to one manufacturer - it's a case of implementations of the standard differing. Most simple programs won't see it, but wine is quite a beast and such differences are exposed. There's also the case of the programmer sticking to the opengl specification - if you don't (and to be fair, it can sometimes be easier and/or quicker not to) then you'll program around whatever bugs exist for your own hardware+software setup - which in early days was mostly nvidia for the wine devs.
    This is changing now that AMD's drivers (and here I'm only referring to the proprietary OpenGL implementation) are up to the task too. I've not used the open source drivers yet (kind of need full OpenGL 3.x and GLSL 1.4+ for what I'm up to atm).
    Thank you.

    This forum is full of dangerous half-knowledge. OpenGL is extremely complex, and there are many ways to implement the standard internally. Some apps are programmed in a way which depends on a specific IMPLEMENTATION, and not the standard.

  7. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr James View Post
    What does a normal user need a new card for other than gaming? Nothing.
    How about work? There are programs that make use of 3D acceleration other than games, namely 3D modeling, CAD software, etc. Oh, and BTW, whenever you say gaming you should add "wine" before it, so to make things clear, because AFAIK native games run perfectly well with fglrx. I tried a few and had no problems so far.

  8. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by devius View Post
    because AFAIK native games run perfectly well with fglrx. I tried a few and had no problems so far.
    Um, no they don't. 2 days ago, i got Humble bundle, and there are artifacts in OSMOS, random lines across the screen... Same happens with Revenge of the Titans.

  9. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by mirv View Post
    Sadly it's not quite as simple as using extensions specific to one manufacturer - it's a case of implementations of the standard differing. Most simple programs won't see it, but wine is quite a beast and such differences are exposed. There's also the case of the programmer sticking to the opengl specification - if you don't (and to be fair, it can sometimes be easier and/or quicker not to) then you'll program around whatever bugs exist for your own hardware+software setup - which in early days was mostly nvidia for the wine devs.
    This is changing now that AMD's drivers (and here I'm only referring to the proprietary OpenGL implementation) are up to the task too. I've not used the open source drivers yet (kind of need full OpenGL 3.x and GLSL 1.4+ for what I'm up to atm).
    Thanks, that's pretty much what I already realised that wine devs most likely had NVIDIA hardware thus the majority of testing happened on this platform. We can't assume that it'll just all start magically working on AMD right off. I'm glad it's moving on now.

  10. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by mirv View Post
    They could add 20 more developers and people would still complain. So why waste the money?
    If I'm an nVidia 'Headlooms', then I'll cut the linux driver developer to 4! Why bother to waste money on them, right? My driver is good enough, and People still complain.

    Quote Originally Posted by mirv View Post
    Unfortunately it's also the case of that sometimes, too many developers can be a bad thing - sometimes you need a small core group to bring cohesion to the project until it's in a more suitable state.
    Yes, when there's no one to direct them (head programmer, iirc?). On professional company, they have a guidelines to write code, make a module, etc. Oh, I heard that microsoft have around 500(0)--CMIIW--people for developing windows?.


    Quote Originally Posted by eldar View Post
    So what would you advice me towards the choice on my next GPU?
    There's a bunch of threads similar to this thread. You can dig it up. But to sum it up:
    - choose nVidia is you want to play game on linux, right here right now. And don't care about open source and the like stuff.
    - choose AMD if you care about open source, just playing lightweight game, and doesn't mind to waith another/a couple of years ahead for driver that comparable with nVidia one.
    - don't care about gaming? choose Intel one.

    6xxx series isn't supported on linux for now, as others has stated.

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