To the AMD people: Money wasted.

[Death Knight]

Anybody reading this thread, don't worry about mrjames. What I suspect is most likely is that he is simply using an old driver. He is definitely a wondoze user, he clearly stated that he wants a wondoze experience.... well keep in mind that a wondoze experience involves using 3 different graphics cards just to get the stupid thing installed, installing several drivers, all of which are *supposed* to work, and having them all fail and causing bluescreen, resulting in garbage canning the hardware and buying one that is preconfigured.

He probably tried installing fglrx with a kernel using kms, it didn't work, fglrx replaced a whole lot of mesa, and now he's tried uninstalling it and it is broken. TOUGH. Go back to wondoze ya cry baby.

What if latest catalyst 10.12 didn't recognize my Radeon 6850? For me, It's not about being windoze user, it's about AMD support for linux. Simply they don't care their linux costumers... Releasing specs without NDA is only a half job. AMD needed to hire more developer to support open sourced drivers. Does it make them poor? How much it cost to them? I really wonder how much AMD paid for linux developers, specially open source devs...

[t.s.]

Anybody reading this thread, don't worry about mrjames. What I suspect is most likely is that he is simply using an old driver. He is definitely a wondoze user, he clearly stated that he wants a wondoze experience.... well keep in mind that a wondoze experience involves using 3 different graphics cards just to get the stupid thing installed, installing several drivers, all of which are *supposed* to work, and having them all fail and causing bluescreen, resulting in garbage canning the hardware and buying one that is preconfigured.

He probably tried installing fglrx with a kernel using kms, it didn't work, fglrx replaced a whole lot of mesa, and now he's tried uninstalling it and it is broken. TOUGH. Go back to wondoze ya cry baby.

Now, now, Mr. droidhacker, don't be like that. Rather than scaring-'n-flaming him like this, it is better to help and educate him, no?
It'll make your day, believe me (..or not).

[Kirurgs]

Hi!

And it's rolling again, all the stupid flame
Please do read this before bashing AMD http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/show...=109199&page=5 , I personally have better experience with AMD than nVidia on laptops.
Author is mixing all stuff together and blame just AMD - unfair!!!
Wine is for volunteers, no-one said game X will run there flawlessly.
I have no tearing in videos since 10.9 or so (don't remember exactly what time, but it stopped), but to be fair - I don't watch movies much on laptop...
I have all linux games running on my laptop, that including Q1, Q2, Q3, SS, SSFB, SSSB, SSII, OA, ET, Amnesia, etc.
But I don't use OS drivers, bcoz fglrx IS better...
And don't trust just words, try out for Yourself! Properly!

P.S. When I first read the message I remember someone saying "don't feed the troll", oops it happened again

regards
Kirurgs

[Mr James]

First of all, I am no noob. I've gone from Ubuntu to Debian to Arch and back to Debian. Windows is no where near my pc and has not been for a long time.

Truly amazing how you jerks (Kirurgs, droidhacker) came to such conclusions from only two posts - Sherlock Holmes would be thrilled. And "DroidHacker" - seriously? You think by simply using Linux you are a hacker? My, the government must be all over you...
In all cases, Kirurgs, droidhacker - if you have nothing constructive to say then get out of my thread.

Second, my problems exist in all of Debian, Ubuntu and Arch. I test every new driver that AMD releases on all these 3 distros. I deal with facts rather than being a fanboy as some here are. You see AMD giving some support to FOSS and all of a sudden they are heros to you. People, quit settling for scraps...

1- Yes, I've some (little) tearing in my videos, but I can use HW acceleration with VAAPI (even if it's a bit rudimentary and sometimes doesn't work due to driver updates). And after all, you also have this problem on Windows (although it seems to not happen so frequently).

Tearing does not occur with my Nvidia card in any distro. Tearing does not occur with the AMD or nVidia card in Windows. nVidia does not tear even without HW acceleration.

2- No 3D acceleration?! It might be a problem you have. Most people here doesn't have it. Furthermore, I can play almost all my games in Linux at very acceptable framerates (some even faster than on Windows).

The problem is not 3D acceleration but the crashing of WINE games as soon as they start - incompatibility with WINE. On the few games that do not crash after 1 minute, playability is fine. But those games that do not crash on me are few. Tomb Raider Anniversary runs great but Underworld is not playable in AMD. Does on nvidia.

3- No games with Wine?! I can play some DX9 games such as FarCry, Max Payne2 or similar ones without any major glithces. HL2 has some little issues, but mostly of the time works properly (at least for me).

See above. Also I am on a 5070, what's your card?

4- Bad Linux support? I think we also have to blame linux kernel dev's because they're always changing the DRM stack.

Were there more collaboration between AMD and kernel devs this would not be such a problem.

5- Xorg dev's are also a bit "narrowminded", and sometimes, seem to forget about the existence of proprietary blobs. If they didn't exist, there wouldn't be any multimedia workstations using Linux.

This is a common problem with all FOSS hard asses. But seriously, the FOSS model kicks the proprietary model's butt. Were there proper documentation and support provided by nVidia and AMD, there would be no need for a blob and all multimedia workstations would trample Windows multimedia workstations under foot.

1- I don't understand why in (some) older releases, my r600 cards worked properly with UVD DxVA and VAAPI acceleration. Now, I can't get them to work... And I think it's a bad policy if you are really disabling driver features, because not every people buys a new laptop every 3 years (like me, for instance...)

No no, the *next* card has early support - Mr Bridgman said so. Semi functional but early support. Keep buying new cards - we are cows you know, ready to be milked.

2- I don't know what really is your support (for instance, bug reporting, driver feedback, etc.) for Linux, but it seems, at least, almost negligible. And it's not good to "forget" your users (even if they're just a few).

Graphics card companies do not provide any of the things you mentioned and call it support. "We (AMD) support you by placing one dev on an unofficial forum to lobby instead of providing an official site for driver bug reporting and feedback".

Finally, I'm going to talk about some "nice" nVidia stories (real facts):

- I've a few colleagues (in my graduation course), that bought laptops with GF9xxx and GF8xxx cards (because of the CUDA support). Guess what?
They were severly affected by design faults in their cards. After the guarantee time ended (in about 3 years), most of their laptops stopped to work. And the fail? nVidia cards. Because the guarantee time expired... you know the rest of the story.

- There are also some problems recently with nVidia. In recent Xorg releases, I've found ATI is catching up compatibility earlier than nVidia counterpart driver. Furthermore, Some recent drivers also caused overheating with nVidia cards.
Btw, I think nVidia is better than ATI at the driver's kernel support, (it seems to be more agnostic to kernel updates) and driver features (the interface seems to be more user-friendly).

So, as I said in the beginning, not everything in nVidia's land is "green"...

I never said nVidia was wonderful. It's support for FOSS is null. But it does provide a proper proprietary driver at least - something we can use.



As a c programmer I can describe my ATI experience in Linux:

for (AS_LONG_AS_I_OWN_ATI_CARD) {
remove_card(NVIDIA);
insert_card(ATI);
if (test_driver(FGLRX)) {
break; //Unreachable.
}
remove_card(ATI);
insert_card(NVIDIA);
sleep(MONTH);
}

[Mr James]

you are right wine support is very important

but you are wrong about the radeon driver because they support all wine specific openGL extensions in openGL3.x/4.x

the only point radeon lose is the law and order politic because S3TC is needed but Patented means its again the law to support that.

in germany/europe all software patents are valid if they are linked to an hardware feature.

means you beat the OS driver team for stay in law and order.

thats not very nice.

"all" i only talk about the tearing bug.

and i do not make fun on you.

do you know? giving away NDA informations are dangerous because again the law and you beat me because i light you up?

are you serious ?

I sir have not beaten you up but do think there is a language barrier here. I was not making fun of you and respect all forum members. Obviously though, from the posted replies of other members here, not all share my respect.

[mirv]

I sir have not beaten you up but do think there is a language barrier here. I was not making fun of you and respect all forum members. Obviously though, from the posted replies of other members here, not all share my respect.

I've refrained from posting so far, but you didn't show much respect to Mr Bridgman.

Going back to the original post of this thread (sorry, but you don't own the thread, it's not yours, by creating this thread you'll have to accept other people are free to post in it) most of the problems you have stem not only from the drivers (open source, proprietary, doesn't matter) but also from other areas of linux.
If you use OpenGL for video playback, enable vsync. This is recommended by AMD themselves.
2D tearing (and by that I assume you mean a composited environment) also has difficulties in how X is setup, but apparently that still the fault of drivers.
I also don't see any linux advertising features by the way, so don't know where you get much of your information from.
As for having a go at AMD for your perceived lack of enthusiasm for open source drivers by them, as has already been pointed out, it was the community that wanted the documention and would handle the rest. AMD have done that, and more. It's undeniably for business reasons (I don't think they've done so out of any sense of kindness), but it's still a Good Thing (TM), and they're still actively supporting and developing the drivers.
So stop acting like the world owes you a favour.

[Kirurgs]

Hi!

Mr James, just be a bit more polite...
Everything you write is already written here hundreds of times, the same is written in nvnews forums about nvidia.
Bashing in forums won't help you and there will be the day you'll understand that

That said, I'm out of your thread...

regards
Kirurgs

[Kano]

@Mr James

It is more easy to use a 2nd or 3rd pc to test ati I do only short tests with my cards when a new driver is out to see whats broken now... Also i compare benchmarks, 10-12 really fixed the opengl performance on WIN - this was not the case with 10-11, only a 10-10 hotfix driver had the same performance.

xvba testing is not that funny, maybe they manage to fix l5.1 wich the new sdk, but it would be nice when the needed lib would be shipped too

[Mr James]

I've refrained from posting so far, but you didn't show much respect to Mr Bridgman.

Going back to the original post of this thread (sorry, but you don't own the thread, it's not yours, by creating this thread you'll have to accept other people are free to post in it) most of the problems you have stem not only from the drivers (open source, proprietary, doesn't matter) but also from other areas of linux.
If you use OpenGL for video playback, enable vsync. This is recommended by AMD themselves.
2D tearing (and by that I assume you mean a composited environment) also has difficulties in how X is setup, but apparently that still the fault of drivers.
I also don't see any linux advertising features by the way, so don't know where you get much of your information from.
As for having a go at AMD for your perceived lack of enthusiasm for open source drivers by them, as has already been pointed out, it was the community that wanted the documention and would handle the rest. AMD have done that, and more. It's undeniably for business reasons (I don't think they've done so out of any sense of kindness), but it's still a Good Thing (TM), and they're still actively supporting and developing the drivers.
So stop acting like the world owes you a favour.

Thanks for your input.

1. I did not disrespect Mr Bridgman. I am grateful that he is around in the forums and from reading his posts in the past, see him as a nice and very helpful guy. Whenever I refer to him in my posts I am refering to AMD and it's support - as he is a representative of sorts. My "disrespectful" posting as you put it are not an attack on Mr Bridgman but a display of my anger with AMD's inability to provide me with a proper Linux driver.

2. No I do not own the thread but as the starter of it I requested that those who attacked me, by presuming from two posts that I am a noob among other assumptions based on nothing, to either post something constructive or get out - oh how unreasonable of me...

3. Yes I got VSync turned up all the way in catalyst.

4. Tearing exists composited desktop or not - Used OpenBox ONLY without xcompmgr and the like in Arch previously for the learning experience and to see what all the fuss was about (discovered that the 1337 way of doing things = more work to do the same thing, more often than not, just for the sake of it).

5. AMD advertises Linux support by the act of providing a driver.

6. As I said earlier, FOSS devs wanting to go their own way and not including AMD devs in the loop has nothing to do with AMD's responsibility to provide a working proprietary driver. Either provide a working driver of none at all - that way one could avoid this whole mess altogether and look elsewhere.

7. The world does not owe me a favor and I didn't ask for one. I asked that AMD provide me with a working driver - as I paid money for my card and AMD claims Linux support, it is my right as a consumer to demand it and yours also.

[Mr James]

Hi!

Mr James, just be a bit more polite...
Everything you write is already written here hundreds of times, the same is written in nvnews forums about nvidia.
Bashing in forums won't help you and there will be the day you'll understand that

That said, I'm out of your thread...

regards
Kirurgs

I am impulsive by nature and for that apologize.
But - You called me a noob from two posts among other things. Not cool.

Written hundreds of times only means it has to be written a hundred more times as they obviously have not gotten the point it yet - more voices must heard by them if you ever want to see us being treated seriously - think politics: without public uproar due to grievances with the government and corrupt rulers sent to the gallows, there would be no democracy or freedom - only the raping abusing of citizens.

I asked you to leave the thread UNLESS you have something constructive to say - which I am sure you do so do it. Sorry if I unintentionally hurt you, man.