LL_10.04 has **not** exited low.beta status

[NoEffex]

Three functions -- (all)sound, (webcam)CHEESE and (option)LOGOUT ... either **all** function properly or all fail together from one OS boot to the next. None fail while operating. All (seem to) fail together, but whether one may fail without the others failing is unclear.

**sound** failure means NO computer sound whatsoever
**webcam** failure means CHEEZE starts up , but then crashes before showing any image
**LOGOUT** failure means the "normal" screen containing shutdow/logout/... options is not listed; a screen permitting LOGOUT/LOGIN appears with no SHUTDOWN option. One must do a CLI [ sudo shutdown -h now ] to turn off the computer.

**NB** A (random?) printer failure with the same behavior continued for months ... the printer being/not-being installed on boot. Then a CUPS update showed up several weeks ago and the printer problem vanished. AFAIKT pure black magic!

KIT:

AMD965 @ stock speed & HS/F
MS_790-gd70 BIOS 1.4
NV_9800gtx+
Hanns-G 27.5"
650 W ASUS power
6 Gig Crucial ram
650 & 500 Gig Sata HD
ALx3 speakers/Logitec webcam/BR-DVD/legacy-Dell KB/MS mouse/Scythe fc

either messing with packages or kernel panic from hardware instability

[jaxjoe]

Not really

either messing with packages or kernel panic from hardware instability

Really all software has been system chosen ans installed automagically: exceptions being some UNIGINE graphics samples and TSPICE under Wine.

Sure hardware can always go bad; my kit does not use cut-rate components. More likely the bone-deep post v-8.04 Ubuntu flaws are the culprit. They are massively documented online and I refer you to that literature.

If I may point again to the 0.98% market penetration of Linux desktop OS. The message is clear; most computer lusrs find Linux un-usable for daily computer tasks. Some of the problem is a bit of left-over Debiolian/Slackmolian **howling dawg** elitism that seeps through Linux user interfaces like skin-gnawing slim from a 1950s horror movie. But, that not all surely.

By V-8.04LTS UBUNTU had fully recovered the functionality and auto.management of RedHat_6 and was prepared to leap-ahead in lusr friendliness and function. But IBM+pals jumped in and snatched away that (radical) movement to make sure Ubuntu never strayed from the corporate mindset of corporate permission & **BOFH** dependence. The OS was hard to write ... and by-damnation it will be hard to use.

So here we are, gentlemen.

[kayosiii]

jaxjoe - You can be quite difficult to understand based on what I can decipher. Yes elitism can be a problem with Linux (often that elitism does come from people who don't know the system very well).

There are lots of things I would personally like to see improve with Linux. I don't think that the permission model is going away - recent versions of windows have been heading in this direction, probably Apple handles this best from a end user perspective.

You may still have a hardware issue even though you have "quality kit". The advantage that Apple has here is that it knows in advance that you will be using one of a limited number of hardware configurations and can test against these configurations. The number of hardware combinations that can potentially run Ubuntu is effectively unlimited. Too few of the companies producing hardware care about Linux support and hardware is often released with bugs that are worked around in the driver software (that is not released for linux). Documentation on this usually does not leave the company that produced the hardware. This means that the Linux world is starting from a position of distinct disadvantage.

Having said that it is indeed possible that Ubuntu have released a buggy LTS release. I can't say much more than I have been running Kubuntu 10.04 on at least 3 machines... Two of these handle sound flawlessly (the third uses a professional sound card which works well but does require extra effort). The camera on my laptop is physically mounted upside down which was fixed and then unfixed in an update, all my other webcams work fine (I have 3 in total). The touch screen on my work computer took a bit of time to get working. But other than that it has been a good experience.

There are a few things that could be causing the problems you speak of I would for instance be interested in seeing what happens when you run Cheeze from the command line. (hopefully it will print out some vital clues as to why it is crashing). Soundcard issues often do what you are saying when your machines has a soundcard that does not support hardware mixing and some legacy app grabs the soundcard and hogs it before anything else can run. the shutdown issue sounds quite serious.

You seem to be spending a bit of effort on this. If you haven't already I suggest ubuntuforums.org or registering a bug or two on Launchpad as this way you get to talk to people who might be able to fix your problem. I can have a look for you if you like. You will need the terminal app for this.
I would like to see

the output of the command lspci
the output of the command lsusb
the output of the command cheese
and if you could post the two log files
/var/log/syslog &
/var/log/messages

or if you are complaining for the sake of complaining - go complain to somebody to ubuntu who might actually be able to do something about your complaints.

[jaxjoe]

This boot everything works. I'll get the outputs on failure

OKey. Yes I do spend lots of time on this system ... everything from casual web-surfing/email to writing quizes and lectures to producing creative texts.

It really should work without issue; this self-built system is/was targeted for the next four years of daily work.

jaxjoe - You can be quite difficult to understand based on what I can decipher. Yes elitism can be a problem with Linux (often that elitism does come from people who don't know the system very well).

There are lots of things I would personally like to see improve with Linux. I don't think that the permission model is going away - recent versions of windows have been heading in this direction, probably Apple handles this best from a end user perspective.

You may still have a hardware issue even though you have "quality kit". The advantage that Apple has here is that it knows in advance that you will be using one of a limited number of hardware configurations and can test against these configurations. The number of hardware combinations that can potentially run Ubuntu is effectively unlimited. Too few of the companies producing hardware care about Linux support and hardware is often released with bugs that are worked around in the driver software (that is not released for linux). Documentation on this usually does not leave the company that produced the hardware. This means that the Linux world is starting from a position of distinct disadvantage.

Having said that it is indeed possible that Ubuntu have released a buggy LTS release. I can't say much more than I have been running Kubuntu 10.04 on at least 3 machines... Two of these handle sound flawlessly (the third uses a professional sound card which works well but does require extra effort). The camera on my laptop is physically mounted upside down which was fixed and then unfixed in an update, all my other webcams work fine (I have 3 in total). The touch screen on my work computer took a bit of time to get working. But other than that it has been a good experience.

There are a few things that could be causing the problems you speak of I would for instance be interested in seeing what happens when you run Cheeze from the command line. (hopefully it will print out some vital clues as to why it is crashing). Soundcard issues often do what you are saying when your machines has a soundcard that does not support hardware mixing and some legacy app grabs the soundcard and hogs it before anything else can run. the shutdown issue sounds quite serious.

You seem to be spending a bit of effort on this. If you haven't already I suggest ubuntuforums.org or registering a bug or two on Launchpad as this way you get to talk to people who might be able to fix your problem. I can have a look for you if you like. You will need the terminal app for this.
I would like to see

the output of the command lspci
the output of the command lsusb
the output of the command cheese
and if you could post the two log files
/var/log/syslog &
/var/log/messages

or if you are complaining for the sake of complaining - go complain to somebody to ubuntu who might actually be able to do something about your complaints.

[kayosiii]

OKey. Yes I do spend lots of time on this system ... everything from casual web-surfing/email to writing quizes and lectures to producing creative texts.

It really should work without issue; this self-built system is/was targeted for the next four years of daily work.

I agree however unfortunately it will never work that way for everybody unless you buy a machine which has been pre-tested to run with Ubuntu such machines do exist. The situation might improve if hardware makers start seeing Linux as target they must develop for.

But otherwise there will be people who things just don't work the way they should. As the girl in the movie "Labyrinth" kept saying - this isn't fair. It's true that this isn't fair - but then again life is not fair.

I will agree that Ubuntu could be more polished with the end user in mind. I agree that there are many components of the system that could be designed much better. I also want Linux/Ubuntu to be robust enough that it is at least as easy as windows to use and administer and preferably as good or better than MacOSX.

But I am also both a programmer and a realist. I have some idea of what is easy to do and what is difficult. What isn't being done for technical or practical reasons and what is not being done because of legal or political reasons. Some problems are really beyond the ability of the Open Source community to solve in the immediate future.

Now because life isn't fair it might just be that you might have to invest some of your own time and effort into getting over these hurdles. Now I could possibly give you some help or you could bring up the issues on Launchpad and get some help from the Ubuntu developers and perhaps get your issues fixed in time for 10.10... Or could complain to a canonical employee in which case it might achieve something positive. Alternatively you could try another Linux distro and see if you get the same problems. You could save up for a copy of Windows or you could save up for a Mac - I happen to like Linux and use it but I would rather that it be good enough that other people use it because they really want to. All of these things will possibly result in you solving your current problems complaining on this site without being constructive won't.

[jaxjoe]

Ubuntu claims competence: why should I tolerate less ?

I agree however unfortunately it will never work that way for everybody unless you buy a machine which has been pre-tested to run with Ubuntu such machines do exist. The situation might improve if hardware makers start seeing Linux as target they must develop for.

But otherwise there will be people who things just don't work the way they should. As the girl in the movie "Labyrinth" kept saying - this isn't fair. It's true that this isn't fair - but then again life is not fair.

I will agree that Ubuntu could be more polished with the end user in mind. I agree that there are many components of the system that could be designed much better. I also want Linux/Ubuntu to be robust enough that it is at least as easy as windows to use and administer and preferably as good or better than MacOSX.

But I am also both a programmer and a realist. I have some idea of what is easy to do and what is difficult. What isn't being done for technical or practical reasons and what is not being done because of legal or political reasons. Some problems are really beyond the ability of the Open Source community to solve in the immediate future.

Now because life isn't fair it might just be that you might have to invest some of your own time and effort into getting over these hurdles. Now I could possibly give you some help or you could bring up the issues on Launchpad and get some help from the Ubuntu developers and perhaps get your issues fixed in time for 10.10... Or could complain to a canonical employee in which case it might achieve something positive. Alternatively you could try another Linux distro and see if you get the same problems. You could save up for a copy of Windows or you could save up for a Mac - I happen to like Linux and use it but I would rather that it be good enough that other people use it because they really want to. All of these things will possibly result in you solving your current problems complaining on this site without being constructive won't.

For a self-advertised hobby-ist or amateur adventure-ist OS your post is relevant and your point is well taken. Your post is also true of LINUX before RedHat_6.0! Remember that? It's the first Linux that comnpletely and uttery worked, and RedHat **yanked** lusrland support for that OS fast as a round-heels fucks ... I know cause they refunded me $40 for breeching a support contract !!! Do not tell me about Linux good intension toward lusrland cause it ain't true nosir!

BUT anyrate :: your post is out-of-sync with what UBUNTU claims. Read the page:

http://www.ubuntulinux.org/

And this page is **far** from the most self-congratulatory ... or should I say optimistic! For these kind of fully professional, self-promotional advertising I'd say your post is **excuse making**. I see no reason to tread softly or make allowances and instead will continue to brashly "... go where everyone else has gone before..." and report what happens.

[jaxjoe]

The comparison with UBUNTU is nearly perfect:

Google shuts down GOOG-411 voice data honeypot

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/10/09/google_kills_goog_four_one_one/

GOOGLE needed millions of voice-samples ... GOOGLE got millions of voice samples.

IBM needs tens-of-thousands of testers for it's M$_competitive OS ... Cannonical/UBUNTU/Debian-Linux provides those testers.

Since M$ is about to fail-again bigtime in the mobil-OS market perhaps the time is right to "bleed" its cash_cow . MOOO! Ubuntu "business class" is positioned to do that. It's lusrs have been working hard getting it over the low_beta hump! Leave the 10% artsy-fartsy to Jobs & Co.

**BTW** my system has performed without issue for about a week. I can't point to any single update ( they do fly about ) as the cause, but I am not going to bad-mouth success. But, this has happened to me before -- perfect KIT behavior only to have a new update break everything. Or new **something** break everything ... MSI haters have lots of snarky MOBO behavior on their side.

Then again ... the secret IBM trials you know ...(cough cough).

[NoEffex]

The comparison with UBUNTU is nearly perfect:

Google shuts down GOOG-411 voice data honeypot

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/10/09/google_kills_goog_four_one_one/

GOOGLE needed millions of voice-samples ... GOOGLE got millions of voice samples.

IBM needs tens-of-thousands of testers for it's M$_competitive OS ... Cannonical/UBUNTU/Debian-Linux provides those testers.

Since M$ is about to fail-again bigtime in the mobil-OS market perhaps the time is right to "bleed" its cash_cow . MOOO! Ubuntu "business class" is positioned to do that. It's lusrs have been working hard getting it over the low_beta hump! Leave the 10% artsy-fartsy to Jobs & Co.

**BTW** my system has performed without issue for about a week. I can't point to any single update ( they do fly about ) as the cause, but I am not going to bad-mouth success. But, this has happened to me before -- perfect KIT behavior only to have a new update break everything. Or new **something** break everything ... MSI haters have lots of snarky MOBO behavior on their side.

Then again ... the secret IBM trials you know ...(cough cough).

So wait, where's Dell in this conspiracy. What about PepsiCo, they're a big company. Also, I'd like you to add me in. I'm the evil villain that helps communications with Canonical and IBM to thwart the...whatever it is you're trying to get at is being thwarted.

You are legitimately dumb.

[jaxjoe]

Seriously ... most space aliens prefer IPods

So wait, where's Dell in this conspiracy. What about PepsiCo, they're a big company. Also, I'd like you to add me in. I'm the evil villain that helps communications with Canonical and IBM to thwart the...whatever it is you're trying to get at is being thwarted.

You are legitimately dumb.

Now ... let's be serious. Conspiracy theories are mostly fun and mostly true, because the worst-possible-outcome for humans is always a fairly good bet. We are a very "entitled" species. I am not the first to say that, just the most knowledgeable.

Only the paranoid survive. Eh hosers? I've got a (one) five-dollar-bill talking even money that sez Canonical will sell-out to one of the BIG-FIVE in the next two years. Any taker?

[jaxjoe]

How smart is JAXJOEs analysis of "Low-beta Ubuntu" desktop? HA if I must point-to I will:

Desktop Linux: The Dream Is Dead

http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/207999/desktop_linux_the_dream_is_dead.html

For me this is just blowing Hectors ashes over Atlas ( so to speak ). Don't all applaud at the same time for my forth-right and pre-scient visioning of Ubuntu. Of-course I see even further, to the day when thief.biz and Gub'mnt grasp will lay-low the entire cloud expression. Whoresale(haha type) thievery by Stalinist and Libertoonian entitleds will drive computer lusrs back to the desktop system ... under the IBM_Linux software brand.

M$ will be too late this time ( ~ 5 years ) to reap what Ubuntu/RedHat/Suse has sown. By then the Ubuntu "low_beta" will have worked thru it's teething issues and be ready to byte the 12-processor/6-Gig kit that will be the eras standard lusrware.