Originally posted by kazetsukai
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NVIDIA Publishes Code For X Synchronization Fences
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Originally posted by V!NCENT View PostAll we know is that AMD and Intel are working around it and nVidia isn't going to attempt it. We know, as this has been posted on Phoronix a while back (half a year?), that they decided to not attempt to even try it.
Originally posted by V!NCENT View PostYet PathScal was the one that did it, while nVidia was leaning backwards and not giving a fsck.
Originally posted by V!NCENT View PostWhat a hell of a gesture. A couple of Fermi cards costs way less than PR, yet they totally didn't gave the most basic of all basics gesture of good faith whatsoever.
Originally posted by V!NCENT View PostWell how about totally removing their Vesa driver? It can't get more anti-open source than that. It actually took manpower to remove the driver.
Originally posted by V!NCENT View PostWhat exactly did they contribute? What the hell is it? Is it contributing or selfishly putting something out there that is only going to help their own blob driver?
Originally posted by V!NCENT View PostOr we could simply just keep hating nVidia for taking the stance "Haha... yeah we like the fact that our cards are supported by FLOSS and so our cards have a good chance of gettijng bought by people who like FLOSS, but when Noveau gets an IP lawsuit it is their problem, not ours. See? We didn't contribute whatsoever. We even removed our FLOSS driver. Hah!"
Any IP lawsuit wont be coming from nVidia. Apart from that, all IP recently brought to light by anyone is subject to legal challenge from anyone generally speaking. nVidia publishing an open driver in no way guarantees indemnity from IP lawsuits.
Originally posted by V!NCENT View PostGetting the good from Noveau but not getting the bad. Yeah that's totally great. We should praise the fact that nVidia will not harm Noveau, like that's a good thing. Like that is some effort that nVidia took. Hmph...
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@mugginz:
There are two thing: Words and deeds.
I basically do not care, whatsoever. Intel, AMD and nVidia are bound by IP that is all comming from the same companies. I look around and see that Intel does FLOSS. I look around and see that AMD does FLOSS. I look around and see that nVidia doesn't and leaves everything up to the Noveau guys.
No deeds, just words. I can't run an OS on words, mugginz.
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Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post@mugginz:
There are two thing: Words and deeds.
I basically do not care, whatsoever. Intel, AMD and nVidia are bound by IP that is all comming from the same companies. I look around and see that Intel does FLOSS. I look around and see that AMD does FLOSS. I look around and see that nVidia doesn't and leaves everything up to the Noveau guys.
No deeds, just words. I can't run an OS on words, mugginz.
You seem to be of the view that nVidia sucks but you're a bit short on rational reasons for this.
I see nothing wrong with you stating that nVidia's position on open source drivers doesn't gel with your personal political belief system but that's about the only fair thing you've had to say on the matter. When you wonder off and try to invent reasons as to why nVidia is anti open source I as yet haven't seen you provide any real material to substantiate why this is so.
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Originally posted by mugginz View PostBut we already know that nVidia no longer publishes an open driver. The issue that we've been discussing is in what way this is good or bad, etc.
You seem to be of the view that nVidia sucks but you're a bit short on rational reasons for this.
1. are not bound by a license made to restrict, rather than enable
2. integrate better due to the nature of a free license
3. allow for a consistent feature set (state trackers)
4. are made in the interest of the FLOSS ecosystem and not in the interest of nVidia
Then nVidia pisses me of because:
1. they do not release docs
2. decided not to go FLOSS even after AMD and Intel did
3. the do not make free software for a free operating system and that sucks because the very reason most people adopt free software is usualy because it is free software and Linux can't drive adoption simply because it is not Windows
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Originally posted by V!NCENT View PostWell then if this is all about good/bad and opinion then all I have left to say is that in my opinion nVidia sucks because they do not persue open drivers and the concept of FLOSS drivers is awesome in my book because they:
1. are not bound by a license made to restrict, rather than enable
2. integrate better due to the nature of a free license
3. allow for a consistent feature set (state trackers)
4. are made in the interest of the FLOSS ecosystem and not in the interest of nVidia
Then nVidia pisses me of because:
1. they do not release docs
2. decided not to go FLOSS even after AMD and Intel did
3. the do not make free software for a free operating system and that sucks because the very reason most people adopt free software is usualy because it is free software and Linux can't drive adoption simply because it is not Windows
What do you do when any, and I mean absolutely any of the open drivers in concert with its associated hardware doesn't provide the performance in terms of speed or functionality or both that an end user requires?
Do you then suggest that instead of using an open platform with a closed driver they instead adopt a fully closed solution such as Micosoft Windows or is it acceptable to use the Linux/Closed driver hybrid?
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Originally posted by mugginz View PostWhat do you do when any, and I mean absolutely any of the open drivers in concert with its associated hardware doesn't provide the performance in terms of speed or functionality or both that an end user requires?
Do you then suggest that instead of using an open platform with a closed driver they instead adopt a fully closed solution such as Micosoft Windows or is it acceptable to use the Linux/Closed driver hybrid?
You have to ask yourself this: Is Linux in its current state for me (y/n). For me it is yes, with the FLOSS drivers. For others it may be not, with the FLOSS drivers.
Linux has always been that OS that grew everyday in terms of usage and functionality, but it has alway had this steep barrier that you had to wait for untill it was low enough for you to jump over it. People with little needs had a fairly lightweight backpack and could easily jump over it. People, like you, that requered a lot more had a fairly heavy backpack and needed to wait for the Linux barrier to get low enough for you to jump over it.
I do not considder nVidia as a part of the Linux ecosystem, just a yetpack in order for people to get over that barrier. Now that very thing is what got me arguing continuesly to no end.
I would accept the blob, but only if there was some effort to persue the availablity of running a decent FLOSS driver.
I think that it is OK have proprietary as a choice; for example on top of-, or if FLOSS is a choice; part of Linux. But I just do not see proprietary only as a part of Linux.
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Originally posted by V!NCENT View PostThere's a difference in what is persued and what is currently the situation. What I said was that if it is OK to just have a blob and no FLOSS then one might as well run Windows or Mac OS X in case one wants Unix.
Originally posted by V!NCENT View PostYou have to ask yourself this: Is Linux in its current state for me (y/n). For me it is yes, with the FLOSS drivers. For others it may be not, with the FLOSS drivers.
Originally posted by V!NCENT View PostLinux has always been that OS that grew everyday in terms of usage and functionality, but it has alway had this steep barrier that you had to wait for untill it was low enough for you to jump over it. People with little needs had a fairly lightweight backpack and could easily jump over it. People, like you, that requered a lot more had a fairly heavy backpack and needed to wait for the Linux barrier to get low enough for you to jump over it.
Originally posted by V!NCENT View PostI do not considder nVidia as a part of the Linux ecosystem, just a yetpack in order for people to get over that barrier. Now that very thing is what got me arguing continuesly to no end.
Originally posted by V!NCENT View PostI would accept the blob, but only if there was some effort to persue the availablity of running a decent FLOSS driver.
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Originally posted by portets43 View Postdo people forget to think about vdpau? vdpau is open source, and great. they really did us a favor by releasing it free. it's a great piece of software.
And on top of that, it happens to be something that we DON'T NEED since it competes with another scheme -- VA-API.
@ALL: about this bickering about whether nvidia is for or against open source.... WTF: there is NO clear cut answer to this question since there are more places you can stand than strictly for or strictly against. In one interpretation, you could state that your RELATIVE standing makes the determination.
Clearly the likes of AMD and INTEL are far more FOR open source than NVIDIA. Of this there can be no doubt. So **RELATIVE** to AMD and INTEL, NVIDIA is *against* open source. Again, the word RELATIVE, that and the old phrase "if you're not for, you're against".
Now fact is simply this: If nvidia were so fundamentally opposed to open source as some would suggest, they would have NO LINUX DRIVER AT ALL -- including their BLOB. It simply wouldn't exist, so it is clear that they aren't THAT evil.
Which again leads to the scale and relative importance.
Are they SUFFICIENTLY FOR open source to satisfy YOU? If the answer is YES, then by all means, you have that option. If the answer is NO, then again, your personal preference.
And just a little note about AMD and open source:
In case you are wondering WHY AMD is so much more FOR open source than NVIDIA.... the answer is quite simple: FUSION gives them LITTLE CHOICE! You can't sell a CPU that doesn't work in Linux with open source drivers. To do so would screw too much up. There's no coincidence that the state of the open source driver is where it is -- evergreen support starting and looking to be on target to finish (more or less) at about the same time as fusion launches -- in other words, launch-day support built right into the kernel.
And so AMD's plans aren't nearly as PURE as a lot of you seem to presume. Not that that's reason to keep me from AMD products -- regardless of their motivations, the end result is good for me and satisfies what **I** need.
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V!ncent get off your open source high horse. I think you just don't like the fact that nvidia has been and will continue to be the flagship hardware/driver provider for most causal Linux users. Nvidia doesn't need open source drivers to get Linux market share so way even bother... The only reason AMD opened up is because ATI kept such a lousy track record in the past.
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