Is LGP Going The Way Of Loki Software?

[LinuxID10T]

You're missing my point. I recognize that the publishers that own the rights to the games are the ones demanding the DRM. I call for a boycott of their products as well.

My point is that a product that uses DRM is worse than no product at all, because it conditions the consumer to believe that DRM is okay. When people start saying that some DRM is acceptable, then more publishers decide to use it. That leaves everyone with a situation where is is virtually impossible to buy products that you can really own.

So yes, I'd like to see more AAA titles available on GNU/Linux. But only if they don't use DRM. If they can only be released with DRM, I'd rather they not be released at all.

Meh, get games now, worry about DRM later...

[soupbowl]

Why are people crying about LGP's light DRM, obviously its something they have to do to get access to porting the games. You cry that linux does not have native big name games, but you won't spend an extra 30% on an older game to support the guys making native ports.

Instead you support the windows version of the same game to save some cash and the producers of those games look at the numbers and see no games being sold that are linux native. So why would they even second glance making games for linux.

A lot of users on this site don't even care that much for linux or the games as much as they just care about getting free stuff. If LGP's games all had no DRM, I would bet many from this site crying about the DRM would go ahead and get them without paying.

[miles]

I'd like to point out that I'm one of those that bought X3, and personally I think "Dam right is worth that". Spent bloody hours on it.

The fact its 5 year old is irrelevant, I'm like most and would love to see a AAA title from whoever, but the sheer rights/license that they would want would be telephone numbers at a guess.
But when people say " I'm not paying...." how can you expect them to be able to get said AAA title without the backing from us in buying games already done so as to help prove there's a market to said AAA title holders.

I bought X3 too, and it is an AAA title. Even more than Quake Wars, and it's still relevant - whatever date it was released for Windows, it would still sell as an AAA title if today was the first day it were to be released.

Only thing preventing me from playing it is that there's no way to switch to the desktop short of closing the game (even only for adjusting the system sound volume, which is insane). Did you find a hack around that?

[Delgarde]

There's another issue too: the rate that Linux interfaces change, the odds aren't exactly low than a binary-only game released five years ago simply wouldn't be able to run on a modern distro.

Interfaces grow, yes, but most major libraries are pretty strict about maintaining API/ABI compatibility over a long period. I've not tried them recently, but some of the old Loki ports were still working fine on my system as recently as last year...

[TwistedLincoln]

Why are people crying about LGP's light DRM, obviously its something they have to do to get access to porting the games. You cry that linux does not have native big name games, but you won't spend an extra 30% on an older game to support the guys making native ports.

Instead you support the windows version of the same game to save some cash and the producers of those games look at the numbers and see no games being sold that are linux native. So why would they even second glance making games for linux.

A lot of users on this site don't even care that much for linux or the games as much as they just care about getting free stuff. If LGP's games all had no DRM, I would bet many from this site crying about the DRM would go ahead and get them without paying.

Who exactly are you referring to? I for one will ALWAYS buy a GNU/Linux native application when it is available, instead of the Windows version, provided there is no DRM. In many cases, I have stated that I'd be willing to pay double to get a DRM-free Linux version of an application or game.

I bought 3 copies of the Windows version of Unreal 3 when it came out, due to the fact that at the time, a Linux client seemed imminent. I have since sold all 3 copies for much less than I paid, as I have no use for the Windows version. But if a native Linux port came out (again, with no DRM), I'd pay full retail price and buy 3 more copies...

The issue with LGP isn't about wanting to get games for free, wanting something for nothing, etc. It's about DRM starting to become accepted in the Linux world, which is a terrible thing.

And in regards to those that say the LGP DRM is better than most -- true, it is better, but it still links the software you purchase to your hardware. Even if there is no online activation, you are still dead in the water if you want to reinstall on replacement machine down the line or sell off your copy once LGP goes out of business or stops supporting their older titles. That's what makes DRM evil -- it takes away your ability to use the product you legally purchased without first getting permission. And that's unacceptable.

[miles]

Who exactly are you referring to? I for one will ALWAYS buy a GNU/Linux native application when it is available, instead of the Windows version, provided there is no DRM. In many cases, I have stated that I'd be willing to pay double to get a DRM-free Linux version of an application or game.

Most LGP games are DRM-free, it amounts to about 15 games. By your standards, you must have bought all of them (maybe twice) thus supporting DRM-free native Linux games.

Here's the list unless I'm mistaken (I might have forgotten a few):
Ballistics
Cold War
Gorky 17
Knights and Merchants
Mindrover Downloadable Update
Creatures Internet Edition
Hyperspace Delivery Boy
Majesty Gold
NingPo MahJong
Candy Cruncher
Mindrover
Postal 2: Share the Pain
Software Tycoon
Soul Ride
X2: The Threat

Of course, it's possible you're just full of air, and never supported them when it counted. If people had spent time doing what you pretend you'd do, LGP wouldn't ever have had to consider DRM.

But you can still go and by them if you intend to keep a bit of dignity. Twice since you boast to pay double. That way, next time you trash what good work people have done (all those DRM-free games LGP published) you won't sound like a tool.

[Svartalf]

The issue with LGP isn't about wanting to get games for free, wanting something for nothing, etc. It's about DRM starting to become accepted in the Linux world, which is a terrible thing.

Then either change the AAA providers minds or stop whining about few to none in the way of AAA titles coming to Linux.

It's that plain.
It's that simple.

The people making the stuff WANT DRM. You don't. Fair enough. However...

Either you accept DRM, you make it where they don't want it, or you do without the AAA titles on Linux. END. OF. STORY.

I don't like it any better than you, if you want the God's truth on the subject. But, all too many people that want no DRM don't get that they've got other things they needs must do to get what they're wanting- and are completely unwilling to do them.

How we got to this "terrible" situation? Because people didn't want to buy the games provided and left the situation where there was no ability to push back in any way against the requirement of the studios wanting it. You all paint this as if it wasn't a problem of not buying- but it IS one of that as much as anything else.

What peeves me more than anything else is that people are more than happy to bitch about the lack of titles and the encroachment of DRM and are unwilling to do the things needed to FIX the problems in the first place. And...largely all the people in this thread doing the complaining are guilty in some respects of that very thing.

Change the rules, however you can- and just talking about it, bitching about it will do nothing of worth in this situation.

[joshuapurcell]

I'm a big fan of LGP, and I have bought 5 or 6 games from them over the last couple of years. That's about 90% of all games I've bought during that time period. I'm not the average gamer or consumer, but I know that LGP has some good quality older games that run on my platform of choice. Aside from getting a good product, buying a game from a company like LGP does much to help the Linux gaming situation that we would all like to see do better than it is currently. Many of the issues I see people complaining about when it comes to LGP releases are not under the control of LGP to begin with. Linux gaming is, for better or worse, not the optimal combination for a variety of reasons, and taking it out on one of the main organizations in this relatively small community that is making positive changes is shooting ones self in the foot.

[Ex-Cyber]

I don't like it any better than you, if you want the God's truth on the subject. But, all too many people that want no DRM don't get that they've got other things they needs must do to get what they're wanting- and are completely unwilling to do them.

How we got to this "terrible" situation? Because people didn't want to buy the games provided and left the situation where there was no ability to push back in any way against the requirement of the studios wanting it. You all paint this as if it wasn't a problem of not buying- but it IS one of that as much as anything else.

What peeves me more than anything else is that people are more than happy to bitch about the lack of titles and the encroachment of DRM and are unwilling to do the things needed to FIX the problems in the first place. And...largely all the people in this thread doing the complaining are guilty in some respects of that very thing.

And what things are needed from the players? You sort of danced around the issue, but it sure sounds like we were all supposed to break our piggy banks and buy multiple copies of games we didn't necessarily want in order to get the publishers' attention with inflated sales numbers. Did you have something else in mind?

[grigi]

And what things are needed from the players? You sort of danced around the issue, but it sure sounds like we were all supposed to break our piggy banks and buy multiple copies of games we didn't necessarily want in order to get the publishers' attention with inflated sales numbers. Did you have something else in mind?

No, he is saying, if you consider playing it, instead of pirating it and/or running it on Wine, buy the Linux Native Copy instead.

I have bought only _some_ of their games (the ones I thought looked interesting), and have not regretted it at all. Both the LGP and Runesoft published games are (from my point of view) excellent quality ports.