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Is LGP Going The Way Of Loki Software?

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  • #21
    Originally posted by TwistedLincoln View Post
    I suggest everyone boycott LGP until they drop DRM from their games. If they insist on providing software with DRM, they deserve to fail.

    On the other hand, if they do abolish DRM, every GNU/Linux user should buy at least one game from them, if only to support the idea of non-DRM ridden game on Linux.
    Dude, LGP's DRM implementation is easily the least intrusive I have seen. Actually, once working with it, I'd say you shouldn't even call it DRM, since it doesn't assume you are guilty until proven innocent.

    Please, PLEASE, stop abusing LGP and wanting everything for nothing.

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    • #22
      Originally posted by Julius View Post
      But it was/is also their horrible website, the limited digital payment options (Paypal, Google, Amazon???) and their refusal to sell purely digital copies for prices that are somewhat competitive.

      Sacred Gold (one of their strongest recent titles) can be bought as a windows version for 5? here in Germany (maybe 10? depending where you go), something below 20? for a digital copy of the linux version would be fine I guess, but 27 pounds (32?) give me a f***ing break!
      A few weeks ago I opened up a small linuxgaming shop with new and used games (still somehow beta). Unfortunately I can not yet offer downloadable games, but I'm working on it. I'm pretty sure I'll be much closer to 20? that to 32? (if the euro does not fail completely).

      Currently I'm offering the boxed version of Sacred: Gold for ~25.50?. Maybe you are interested?

      Link: Fun4Tux

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      • #23
        Honestly, the problem is that all the titles are ANCIENT!!! If I am going to play a game on Linux it is free and open source, or at least decently priced and modern. Quite frankly, I think LGP gives Linux gaming a bad name. I can get much, better (and native) titles for free. Porting a game 5 years after its release just isn't the way to go. I very much like the concept of Steam for Linux, and I hope to see it fairly soon.

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        • #24
          Originally posted by TwistedLincoln View Post
          I suggest everyone boycott LGP until they drop DRM from their games. If they insist on providing software with DRM, they deserve to fail.
          Then don't be bitching about the lack of AAA titles that they're not offering right at the moment. In the large, the publishers that own the rights to those titles WANT DRM and insist upon it before you'll get rights access- or they charge you even MORE money than the typical low 6 figures they gig you for if you can't do DRM for some reason.

          Get companies like UbiSoft and EA to wise up and DRM will go away.

          Beating up LGP isn't going to help anyone and it's going to do you out of much of the Linux gaming scene, such as it is right now.

          On the other hand, if they do abolish DRM, every GNU/Linux user should buy at least one game from them, if only to support the idea of non-DRM ridden game on Linux.
          It's not so much their call as it is the studios' and publishers' call. I found out that the DRM he came up with was done more as a response to Ascaron's request for the same on Sacred.

          (Wearing my official LGP rep hat for a moment here...)

          All the same, if we did manage to find a way to remove DRM from the picture, would you seriously and honestly buy then? Sadly, while I've seen amazing things from everyone in the Indie space, I've seen the opposite and nothing but empty rhetoric in the case of LGP. Lots of people saying they'd buy but don't for varying reasons.

          One of the reasons he caved to pressure from Ascaron on this is that we really DO see a 1 in 20 ratio of bought to pirated on the titles we've published up to this point. Excuses for this vary, but the main one I've seen as a bitch about the titles is that people can buy the title in the bargain bin for $1-5 for Windows, never once realizing that in truth, the game in question is a new SKU as far as everyone in the industry's concerned and there's costs, etc. involved with the production of said new SKU and it's being priced fairly for what it is, sadly enough. When you do a pressing, the per-unit royalties that are owed on the title in question are due THEN. That's why Loki ended up owing iD a quarter million plus having never sold more than about 200-400 units of Quake 3:Arena (Which, for everyone's information here, was one of the major, major missteps that killed Loki...). So, unless you're REALLY flush with cash or know beyond a shadow of a doubt that you're going to sell 20-50k units, you don't press that many and press 2-5k max and run a bigger price point to see a profit overall or at least do break-even on things.

          (Taking off the LGP hat...)

          In the end, you're going to have to make some hard decisions here. But you need to have the decision framed clearly in your mind and stick to the decision without any whingeing about the lack of titles, etc. when you choose the other path. In order to honestly resolve the problem down that path (and I'll applaud you if you DO this...) is to help people like me work at removing the belief that you actually NEED this sort of thing and actually BUY the stuff that isn't DRMed to help give ammo to the position you've taken and I'm trying to build up here.

          This includes any titles that LGP ships right now without the DRM in it, even if they do have DRM on other titles.

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          • #25
            Originally posted by LinuxID10T View Post
            Honestly, the problem is that all the titles are ANCIENT!!! If I am going to play a game on Linux it is free and open source, or at least decently priced and modern. Quite frankly, I think LGP gives Linux gaming a bad name. I can get much, better (and native) titles for free. Porting a game 5 years after its release just isn't the way to go. I very much like the concept of Steam for Linux, and I hope to see it fairly soon.
            So you can get better than X3 and Sacred for free? Show me links, please...

            Oh, and Steam for Linux doesn't solve the effort to MAKE the titles- it's a deployment and DRM framework.

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            • #26
              Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
              So you can get better than X3 and Sacred for free? Show me links, please...

              Oh, and Steam for Linux doesn't solve the effort to MAKE the titles- it's a deployment and DRM framework.
              I just believe there are many free games that are just as entertaining. Maybe not for the same genre as X3, but if first person shooters is your thing... Anyway, the other problem is that some of the games from LGP have been horribly maintained. The dependencies are ancient a lot of the time, and a lot of the time it is just easier to run the game under WINE. BTW, Steam and the Source engine were ported to Mac, not just the Steam framework. That means that getting it to run on Linux should be fairly trivial, now that the engine running. As for X3, I am surely not going to pay 30 pounds for a game from 2005. The truth of the matter is that if I am going to pay for a title to run on Linux, it is either going to be far cheaper (or free) or it is going to be from the last year or so. Personally, I think you guys deserve to be working on triple A games so they will be able to run the same day that the Windows version is released.

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              • #27
                I'd like to point out that I'm one of those that bought X3, and personally I think "Dam right is worth that". Spent bloody hours on it.

                The fact its 5 year old is irrelevant, I'm like most and would love to see a AAA title from whoever, but the sheer rights/license that they would want would be telephone numbers at a guess.
                But when people say " I'm not paying...." how can you expect them to be able to get said AAA title without the backing from us in buying games already done so as to help prove there's a market to said AAA title holders.



                Pete.

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                • #28
                  With regards the DRM its not even noticeable and plus the fact that if you do sell said game you can transfer the license. Never heard any other DRM that allows that on any platform.

                  If you are one of these ones that hasn't got a internet connection it stills allows you to play. You cant say any fairer than that.

                  Pete

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                  • #29
                    Yeah personally i would love to see newer or original native games from LGP.
                    I understand the licensing fees as well as the talent in use that keeps their ports so expensive.
                    But its still a pain for example the price for the recent X3 port i still cant justify a purchase because you can get both that and its sequel for 20 bucks with shipping and handling while a purchase of the port via tuxgames would cost me as much as 70 with shipping and handling.
                    I am not opposed to paying for native games but the price is always a killer sure now i see that LGP offers digital versions but i'd still prefer a pressed disc.

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                    • #30
                      Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
                      Then don't be bitching about the lack of AAA titles that they're not offering right at the moment. In the large, the publishers that own the rights to those titles WANT DRM and insist upon it before you'll get rights access- or they charge you even MORE money than the typical low 6 figures they gig you for if you can't do DRM for some reason.
                      You're missing my point. I recognize that the publishers that own the rights to the games are the ones demanding the DRM. I call for a boycott of their products as well.

                      My point is that a product that uses DRM is worse than no product at all, because it conditions the consumer to believe that DRM is okay. When people start saying that some DRM is acceptable, then more publishers decide to use it. That leaves everyone with a situation where is is virtually impossible to buy products that you can really own.

                      So yes, I'd like to see more AAA titles available on GNU/Linux. But only if they don't use DRM. If they can only be released with DRM, I'd rather they not be released at all.

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