Linux is not ready for Steam

[darkphoenix22]

Because on many distributions, especially the popular ones, games will be broken out of the box due the latency introduced by wrappers and abstraction.

Like PulseAudio.

[Remco]

Like PulseAudio.

Better give it a rest already. PulseAudio is not going away. It extends ALSA's feature set while providing a much simpler API. It does this at a low latency. Any high latency is a bug. PA works for the vast majority of software nowadays. It may take another year for the lingering compatibility issues to go away. If you go and switch to OSS or ALSA now, you'll be sent back in time 2 years, with a completely fucked up audio stack. Seriously, messing up the audio stack *again* will make Linux a joke system that can't pick a direction and stick with it.

[pingufunkybeat]

As long as I don't need to install PulseAudio, I'm fine with it. Those who need it can use it and worry about it.

It would be a leap back to the dark ages of ESD if it were ever made mandatory.

And I don't see using ALSA as "messing with the audio stack again". I haven't messed with it for at least 8 years.

[Remco]

As long as I don't need to install PulseAudio, I'm fine with it. Those who need it can use it and worry about it.

It would be a leap back to the dark ages of ESD if it were ever made mandatory.

And I don't see using ALSA as "messing with the audio stack again". I haven't messed with it for at least 8 years.

I don't mind it if you use plain ALSA on your machine. That's entirely up to you of course. But in the future, it won't be a supported desktop configuration, simply because the big distros all use PulseAudio. PulseAudio may even become mandatory when games come along that directly depend on its API.

When I say "don't mess up the audio stack again", I mean that Ubuntu and Fedora should stick with PulseAudio, call it good and fix any issues with it. If the stack changes every 3 years, Linux as a gaming platform will remain in perpetual beta.

[pingufunkybeat]

But in the future, it won't be a supported desktop configuration, simply because the big distros all use PulseAudio.

They all used HAL and ESD too.

It's an unfortunate development which will not work, IMHO. Most users do not need anything more than simple audio with sane mixing and volume control. Running a daemon for this (and 100 other things most people don't want) is a monstrous solution.

[pingufunkybeat]

I forgot devfs, another standard that was replaced overnight.

[darkphoenix22]

Well, bare ALSA is staying for the time being in my distro. I'll likely add OSSv4 to infinityOS 2.0, but it'll be a choice.

It'll likely be a year at the very least before I even consider to replace ALSA with OSSv4. PulseAudio has not been in infinityOS from the beginning and will never be added.

[drag]

They all used HAL and ESD too.

No.
A) ESD was not that widely used. I never seen it used for anything other then providing simple sound effects for Gnome.

B) HAL has changed and morphed as the Linux hardware detection and configuration has matured.

It's an unfortunate development which will not work, IMHO. Most users do not need anything more than simple audio with sane mixing and volume control.

Which is not going to happen without PA.

Running a daemon for this (and 100 other things most people don't want) is a monstrous solution.

Yeah. What is so wrong with running a daemon?

[drag]

[QUOTE=darkphoenix22;132280]Well, bare ALSA is staying for the time being in my distro. I'll likely add OSSv4 to infinityOS 2.0, but it'll be a choice.[quote]

Yeah. Because forcing users to choose between different subsystems that are broken in different ways is a much better solution then picking one and just making it work so that users don't have to give a crap.

It'll likely be a year at the very least before I even consider to replace ALSA with OSSv4. PulseAudio has not been in infinityOS from the beginning and will never be added.

Good luck adding hotplugging USB audio support and bluetooth audio support without it.

But I guess that in your world things like USB Audio headphones for gamers and bluetooth support are things that nobody gives a shit about.

[mugginz]

The question is, why should they care. If it requires X hours of work for things they don't use nor care about, where's the motivation?

Why should they care? Well lets see. Of the options available, some obvious ones are:

• Remove PulseAudio and revert back to ALSA the way it is now. Doing this we loose various benefits of PulseAudio and create a less good, not better experience for some.
• First, fix ALSA, test it thoroughly, make sure it's feature complete and compatible with everything, then replace PulseAudio with it.
• Add any missing functionality to OSS4, test it thoroughly, make sure it's feature complete and compatible with everything, then replace PulseAudio with it.

You're saying that the community should be happy for the app developers to be asking for the distros to create breakage for some people so they can have their games run without recodage? If they're so against more coding then they need to arrange for the alternative sound solutions to be it a fit state to revert back to before rolling back to their preferred sound system not after.

Also, your quoted comment doesn't ask for another major upset, it asks for the removal of the most recent upset.

What, the removal of PA? It brought new functionality that is desirable and required. If we get rolled back to native ALSA then we loose that and are still left with sound system that's not compatible with all software.

Remember, in the ALSA only days there was still software having conniptions when playing back audio. This "feature" is not a PulseAudio exclusive by any means.