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  • #21
    Originally posted by elect View Post
    I like to be kept update with this stuff.


    Traditional powerful games has always been the most obstacle to linux's spreading..
    The vast vast vast ABSURDLY vast majority of people who use a conventional computer, regardless of what OS it has, don't use it for playing 3D games.

    Most people who play 3D games use a console.

    The rest are a minority.

    And everybody else uses their computer for NORMAL activities -- business applications, web browser, email, etc.

    To believe that GAMES are the MAJOR stumbling block to the platform spreading is very misguided.

    If you want linux to catch/spread, you need an APPLICATION that ONLY works on linux, that people *MUST HAVE*.

    Look up the history of the SPREADSHEET and see how IT impacted adoption of computers.

    Comment


    • #22
      Originally posted by droidhacker View Post
      And everybody else uses their computer for NORMAL activities -- business applications, web browser, email, etc.

      ...

      If you want linux to catch/spread, you need an APPLICATION that ONLY works on linux, that people *MUST HAVE*.
      That would help certainly, but Linux wouldn't need exclusive programs to attract NORMAL users, if they actually had it offered to them when they purchased their computers the way normal users do so, and could save money by not choosing Windows.

      With Microsoft buttoning up the distributors from showing off Linux by waving contracts discounting Windows licenses in front of them if they don't, and with no anti-monopoly law enforcement stepping in to prevent it, Linux has a very steep uphill climb as far as adoption, much more so than JUST if it had the other problems it does.

      The best thing Linux users can do to turn this tide is by building computers for friends and telling them to never donate money to Microsoft by purchasing* Windows**.

      * You might have donated them money for it, but Microsoft still owns your soul along with your data by using it.

      ** Windows with bars, that is.

      Comment


      • #23
        Originally posted by Qaridarium
        you are wrong! wine is an nativ linux app!
        Yes, it is. Software running on top of it is a different matter. I'd say using libwine might count as native, running on top of wine directly does not.

        if a companie like AMD support wine and linux! this is the biggest help ever!

        because AMD isn't a gaming software companie!


        same on blizzard.. if they support wine in an high level...

        and the game runs well this IS the REAL help for linux on the desktop!

        because the user don't care! wine or not wine!
        If they are truly making an effort to support wine by compiling their programs with libwine, then I agree. That's fine, maybe not ideal, but it works ok. If they just make the bare minimum effort to get it working on top of wine, it's unsupported by them, and may break in the next release, then that's not fine.

        OpenGL?!! isn't linux nativ! if you wana make a linux nativ game code raytracing in c++ compilet on the GCC nativ on the linux kernel!
        Whatever are you talking about? Mesa isn't linux native? Of course it is. So are the binary drivers implementations.

        OpenGL! isn't linux!
        directX isn't linux!
        Well, no. I don't think anyone said they were. They're graphics APIs, not an operating system.

        there is no diverend if you run an openGL app or an dx app in wine.
        wine makes an openGL app from the dx11 app there is no diverend!
        wine is the nativ openGL! app!
        Well, the difference is that in one wine has to automatically translate the code which is a complicated and sometimes buggy process. But when it works, yeah, it's fine.

        if you wana be nativ linux you need to kill OpenGL! and go for C++ software based rendering raytracing and pure GCC cpu code!
        Uh, what? Mesa, dude. Or the linux binary drivers. Both are just as "native" as some software renderer running on the cpu. They just send the code onto the gpu instead.

        but? is this realistic ? no!
        No, it isn't. It's also completely besides the point and unnecessary.

        if an companie supports linux fine if the companie supports an real nativ linux app like wine fine!
        True support, ok. But i'm guessing the majority of the time wine is used that isn't the case.

        Fine!

        fine! and you are wrong!

        Comment


        • #24
          Originally posted by droidhacker View Post
          The vast vast vast ABSURDLY vast majority of people who use a conventional computer, regardless of what OS it has, don't use it for playing 3D games.

          Most people who play 3D games use a console.

          The rest are a minority.

          And everybody else uses their computer for NORMAL activities -- business applications, web browser, email, etc.

          To believe that GAMES are the MAJOR stumbling block to the platform spreading is very misguided.

          If you want linux to catch/spread, you need an APPLICATION that ONLY works on linux, that people *MUST HAVE*.

          Look up the history of the SPREADSHEET and see how IT impacted adoption of computers.
          Traditional powerful games has always been one of the obstacle to linux's spreading on desktops..

          Fixed

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by elect View Post
            I like to be kept update with this stuff.


            Traditional powerful games has always been the most obstacle to linux's spreading..
            It was meant to be a joke, playing off the original name of the post. Which it seems no one picked up on.

            Personally I dont mind if a linux steam client exists, although I think the actual supported content will be minimal. I think most things that will be available right away will be older games that use dosbox (which is already cross-plaform)

            Comment


            • #26
              Wine?

              How do we know these screenshots aren't just someone running steam in wine?

              Comment


              • #27
                Originally posted by Vegar View Post
                How do we know these screenshots aren't just someone running steam in wine?
                Because you can confirm that yourself by downloading clien's from valve and running patches. And i think those differ's a bit with steam windows client.

                Comment


                • #28
                  Originally posted by Vegar View Post
                  How do we know these screenshots aren't just someone running steam in wine?
                  Just try it yourself. I did, and it works indeed natively on linux.

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Originally posted by Qaridarium
                    you are wrong! wine is an nativ linux app!

                    if a companie like AMD support wine and linux! this is the biggest help ever!

                    because AMD isn't a gaming software companie!


                    same on blizzard.. if they support wine in an high level...

                    and the game runs well this IS the REAL help for linux on the desktop!

                    because the user don't care! wine or not wine!

                    OpenGL?!! isn't linux nativ! if you wana make a linux nativ game code raytracing in c++ compilet on the GCC nativ on the linux kernel!

                    OpenGL! isn't linux!
                    directX isn't linux!
                    there is no diverend if you run an openGL app or an dx app in wine.
                    wine makes an openGL app from the dx11 app there is no diverend!
                    wine is the nativ openGL! app!

                    if you wana be nativ linux you need to kill OpenGL! and go for C++ software based rendering raytracing and pure GCC cpu code!


                    but? is this realistic ? no!


                    if an companie supports linux fine if the companie supports an real nativ linux app like wine fine!

                    Fine!

                    fine! and you are wrong!
                    Wine is BAD for Linux because it strengthens Windows as the OS. It's an emulator and that's the problem. It's not "native" application and therefore prone to all sorts of problems. Wine is NOT a solution for promoting Linux as a gaming system, it's the exact opposite.

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Originally posted by Qaridarium
                      and the game runs well this IS the REAL help for linux on the desktop!

                      because the user don't care! wine or not wine!
                      You are just making general assumptions based on your beliefs or your friends beliefs. There are users who care if the application they need is native to linux or if it has to be run with wine.

                      Originally posted by Qaridarium
                      OpenGL! isn't linux!
                      Of course it isn't. Opengl is a specification. Mesa is the linux native implementation of that specification. Saying that opengl is not linux is the same as saying html is not linux. It doesn't make a lot of sense.

                      Originally posted by Qaridarium
                      if an companie supports linux fine if the companie supports an real nativ linux app like wine fine!

                      Fine!

                      fine! and you are wrong!
                      You are very passionate in your beliefs, but don't forget that you can learn a lot if you pay attention to what other users are saying.

                      The problem with wine is that it is very ugly in looks and logic. Linux apps that only use X11 are ugly, but windows apps on wine are even worse. Using an application to run another application that was never meant to be run with the first application on top of another operating system isn't very elegant. Sure it may work, but that doesn't change the fact that the programmer could have made a linux native port in the first place, even if it isn't open source. I think this is the problem for most of the people that dislike wine. The problem isn't wine. It's the lack of interest in developing native linux applications. This is not the same as saying that all emulators are bad, because nobody is expecting that Nintendo releases the linux native Super Mario Brothers.

                      The problem with linux low adoption rate isn't related to games obviously. It's more of a marketing problem and the fact that windows and even macos have reached critical mass. Everyone uses windows because that's what comes with new computers, and new computers come with windows because that's what everybody uses. The ones (regular users, not scientific researcher or big companies) who don't use windows or mac are the ones that question why should they follow the flock and shouldn't use something else.

                      "Remember, you have a choice."

                      Oh, and to stay on topic, I'm actually excited that steam could be comming to linux! I see no harm in that.

                      Comment

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