GNOME Shell 2.29 Brings A Lot Of Improvements

[energyman]

if you compare 2.28 to 1.4 you still find 1.4 more adaptable. With less memory usage.

And that everything is faster is not a good point, if you are really, really slow. gstreamer framework? That retarded thing is not really a selling point. But hey, gnome loves bad choices. ESD, bonobo/CORBA now gstreamer. Being smart was never their strong point. The most important driving force always has been 'do it differently than KDE'....

[Joe Sixpack]

Gnome does pretty good. Every release is a step forward in progress. You don't need to rewrite software from scratch or have abrupt changes to introduce new things.

Gnome has now accelerated vector scaling graphics, uPNP support, Gstreamer multimedia framework, faster font rendering, optimized X11 network performance, network transparent audio system, modern and vastly improve VFS layer, Webkit integration, Vala programming language, automatic hardware detection and notification systems, 3G modem support, advanced VPN support, centralized ways to manage themes, introduced online services frameworks and enhanced 'social networking', better support for integration between multiple desktop environments. etc etc etc.

It's a whole raft of features and performance optimizations introduced.

If you compare the Gnome 2.0 release to 2.28 you'd see a massive amount of changes and huge improvements in graphics, multimedia, development tools, language support, and a whole bunch of other things.

They try to get stuff working prior to introducing it into the desktop and they do it so that it unobtrusive to the end user.

Occasionally things go wrong and they introduce problems, people get pissed off, and a lot of new features take a while to mature before people start using them and taking them for granted, but it's really possible to get more work done by gradually introducing features then it is to just cut all backwards compatibility and rewrite a whole bunch of stuff.

If you just look at the desktop screenshots from release to release you would not see much differences, but really there is a lot that is going on that is not really apparent unless you get into really using it as a tool regularly.

I didn't say Gnome never changed - I said they don't change nearly as much between releases as KDE does. Yes you can see a lot of differences between 2.0 and 2.28, but that's 14 versions, and about 6-7 years. You can't really give them huge amounts of credit for anything in that long of a time span.

I should also note that I'm a GNOME user - not from the beginning, but since about 1.4 when KDE 2.x was too quirky for me. I've always used both DE's.

(and FYI: Gstreamer is NOT a GNOME application. It has absolutely no ties to the GNOME project. I don't know why GNOME people think that it is.)

[kraftman]

It's usable.

Plasma is usable and the Gnome shell afaik is not even finished, so I doubt if it's usable right now as plasma is. This magic word "usable, usability" is used where there are no other arguments? I'm sure there are, but if you don't have such arguments "usable" means nothing to me.

[kraftman]

KDE has had it's chance to displace Gnome and so far it's _NOT_GOOD_ENOUGH_. It was around _first_. Gnome displaced KDE... KDE is not some young or experimental challenger trying to usurp the big corporate Gnome Linux-stifling monster. _It_is_just_a_desktop_environment_.

It displaced Gnome long ago, but like Energyman said there were people who decided to make Gnome default (usually Gnome and Gtk related people) and that's all. So it looks Gnome were not good enough and gained much popularity, because mentioned people made if default in some of the most important DEs.

Gnome has now accelerated vector scaling graphics, uPNP support, Gstreamer multimedia framework, faster font rendering, optimized X11 network performance, network transparent audio system, modern and vastly improve VFS layer, Webkit integration, Vala programming language, automatic hardware detection and notification systems, 3G modem support, advanced VPN support, centralized ways to manage themes, introduced online services frameworks and enhanced 'social networking', better support for integration between multiple desktop environments. etc etc etc.

And what of this is missing in KDE? Afaik there's accelerated vector scaling graphics, there's uPNP support, Gstreamer, Xine support, there's Phonon, Pulse Audio, there are KIO slaves (equivalent of Gnome vfs, but made long time before it?), webkit integration, automatic hardware detection, afaik Gnome notification system is taken from KDE, centralized ways to manage themes, social networking, I don't know about Vala, but we've got QT not sluggish mono or python etc. etc. What does "better support for integration between multiple desktop environments" mean? Last time I checked QT apps looked like crap in Gnome (in term of integration) and Firefox looks like KDE application in KDE. Right now, there's nothing new and exciting in Gnome.

[val-gaav]

What's new in Gnome shell compared to KDE plasma and other things?

They will tell you it's different even though the concept of what gnome does for 3.0 is so much the same what kde/plasma already does. The main problem I have here is they refused to use plasma or any other already ready kde tech and instead they reinvent the wheel.

Discoverability of workspaces is much higher. Every time you start an application, you get the opportunity to do stuff with virtual desktops.
.

...and actually many people that tested gnome shell find this annoying. Whenever you click to start new application you get this fancy animation and are forced to see the workspaces. Though I agree that a concept to make workspaces more discoverable for new user is nice.

I didn't try it, yet. But well, as long as it it optional... It's all about choice.

You are not using Gnome for a long time ? I mean to say that something will be "optional" and that Gnome is about choice is really funny. I just cannot help but to smile on that. Gnome aims to force their defaults on all users and gets rid of unneeded functionality in most cases. Gnome shell is major element I don't think there will be a choice here, if anything the old way will be removed in one of past 3.0 releases.

Finding new and experimental ways to make your UI suck more is entertaining and all that,

Wasn't Gnome the one you should say this about ? If removing print options and icons on menus/buttons is not making your UI to suck more then I don't know what it is ... Oh I know they call it a feature...

but the are real reasons why Gnome is the default for Ubuntu/Redhat/Novell Desktop and most everybody out there...

The real reason is that Redhat made Gnome the default years ago due to licensing (Qt was not GPLed back then) and sticked to it through the years. Others in many cases just go with the flow. Redhat is the main distro out there and if you look on all the stuff like those all *kits, kms, playmoth and such ... Well what I want to say is that it is all somewhat Redhat related, and almost all distros end up using it.

As far as DE go all the reasons here end up as licensing issues years ago and that Redhat is sticking to Gnome ... That's all there is to it.

There is also good reasons why Ubuntu is going to be the most popular and most friendly desktop out there

Sure there are... Those reasons however have nothing to do with DE used.

And there is a reason why Redhat defaulted to using Gnome after years and years of trying to integrate KDE and Gnome and let users choose.

Nice FUD... Well I already said why Redhat defaulted to Gnome years ago (due to licensing) and they just sticked to it. There were no years of choice, Gnome was always Redhat default/prefered environment.

Until some of you KDE fans figure out why this happened and the method behind's Gnome's madness then it's frankly impossible to have any sort of discussion on this subject.

More or less we already know. At start it was licensing issue. Right now it's more of a vendor lock in situation, with main enterprise distros sticking with Gnome (mainly due to main player Redhat past decision). Also compare how Qt4 apps work and integrate with both Gnome/KDE to how GTK+ integrates only with Gnome way/HIG. It's not really surprising how GTK+ devs try to say their toolkit is crossplatform and all but in fact it works best in Gnome and only in Gnome. Isn't this tactic so alike to what Microsoft does
?
Gtk-alternative-button-order is one great examples of "we are compatibile and care of other DE/OSes". It works in 2% of gtk+ aplications? Not our fault, you know people should put extra code to make it work so blame the developers of those apps not us.
Right, Qt people somewhat managed to make it work without extra code required, gtk+ devs cannot and I can only think that is deliberate action to undermine other DE.
Another thing was the decline of a simple patch to gtk+ that would fix the tray problem in KDE4. A simple patch but you know gtk+ devs just had to make it hard to get accepted and thanks to that first releases of kde4 had to include a special background for tray just to keep compatibility with gtk+ apps.

KDE has had it's chance to displace Gnome and so far it's _NOT_GOOD_ENOUGH_. It was around _first_. Gnome displaced KDE... KDE is not some young or experimental challenger trying to usurp the big corporate Gnome Linux-stifling monster. _It_is_just_a_desktop_environment_.

and of course that means that Gnome is just simply better ? I should go away and use Windows then as you know it won out with Linux years ago and is still winning. Heck it means it's better right ?

So unless there is any change in the level of discourse I would kindly ask people to STFU about how much KDE ROXXS every time there is a article mentioning Gnome or anything related to Gnome. If there is a article on KDE then be my guest. I don't care.

If BlackStar and other Gnome fanbois can go and post their crap in every KDE releated news then I think KDE fanbois are free to post here don't you think ?

This fanboy thing is just stupid.

Agreed. I wouldn't even post here if not for your post.

[val-gaav]

Last time I checked QT apps looked like crap in Gnome (in term of integration) and Firefox looks like KDE application in KDE. Right now, there's nothing new and exciting in Gnome.

Actually Qt4 apps integrate and look nice in Gnome, to the poitn that with many apps you might not even notice it is a non Gtk+ app...

That said it's not a Gnome feature it is thanks to Trolltech/Nokia. Of course Gtk+ apps on the other hand have poor integration in KDE/Windows or any non Gtk+/Gnome platform.

As for Firefox, Mozilla for years has shown it doesn't care about KDE and that in their minds Linux=Gnome. This really hasn't changed, the recent kde integration for Firefox is openSUSE work.

[BlackStar]

Hey, you guys started the party started without me!

Come on, KDE guys, you are getting too predictable! "Gnome" in the news title => brain spinlock => the lizard-men conspire against KDE => ??? => profit! You really need to find new ways to flame, your current ones are quickly becoming ineffective. We can't allow the voice of reason to prevail now, can we?

Also thumbs up to dk2x

PS: have you actually tried Gnome shell? It's got nothing to do with KDE plasma (wtf with that comparison, anyway?)

PS 2: come on, why has noone mentioned Windows 3.11 yet? Oh, s... I just did.

PS 3: who the hell thought it was a good idea to place a global "change appearance" link into the menu of every single window in KDE (4.3)? Hint: this doesn't make KDE configurable, this makes it retarded. With stuff like this, no wonder Gnome displaced KDE (sorry, no grand evil conspiracy for you).

Come on, don't be shy, I wanna see the flames! And don't forget: the more pageviews, the higher the ad revenue for Phoronix. Double-plus good!

[BlackStar]

Actually Qt4 apps integrate and look nice in Gnome, to the poitn that with many apps you might not even notice it is a non Gtk+ app.

Loool. Seriously, lol. Integration is slightly better nowadays (Qt can finally render fonts now), but it still feels alien everywhere outside of KDE, be it Gnome, Cocoa or win32.

Same with Gtk+, really.

On completely unrelated news, Opera abandoned Qt a few months ago in favor of their own rendering library and native Gtk+ and KDElibs frontends. So yeah.

[val-gaav]

Angry Hey, you guys started the party started without me!

Actually you are the sole reason why this party even started in the first place. Few of your flame-topics showed others the way to go.

I think around Gnome 3.0 you will end up posting and asking people to stop, but it will to late to stop this insanity by then...

[val-gaav]

Loool. Seriously, lol. Integration is slightly better nowadays (Qt can finally render fonts now), but it still feels alien everywhere outside of KDE, be it Gnome, Cocoa or win32.

Then the xfce desktop I tried some Qt4 apps to see the integration must have been somehow compromised as the integration was perfect for me ... I for sure would like to see gtk+ apps behaving like that on my KDE.

Anyway it's obvious you want to FUD again... I'm not surprised.