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Thread: R600 Open-Source Driver WIth GLSL, OpenGL 2.0

  1. #171
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    I do agree with your bad feeling about OpenGL but I do have "less of a bad feeling" thanks to the changes that appeared in OpenGL 3.2.
    Last edited by bridgman; 12-29-2009 at 01:55 AM.

  2. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaridarium View Post
    realy Opengl in wine is not so shiny as in theorie.....
    there are Windows-Only-OpenGL-Extansions!
    exampel: WOW in openGL modus you can't see the mini-map---

    only DirectX modus brings the full game to work!...

    I'm so sorry to you kano but windows games use windows-only-extansions in the OpenGL modus... useless for wine!
    That's not fully sure if that's a wine problem. Did you crosscheck if it works with nvidia? Maybe the emulated d3d layer uses a different way to show it. Maybe let somebody test with nvidia hardware and that game, i do not play it.

  3. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaridarium View Post
    you don't unterstand.......
    on windows thats work on an X1xxx..YES but....
    only shader3 not VTF.

    but! WINE shows to the programm a nvidia card if wine defect MESA as a renderer....
    nvidia means.. if the Programm contain VTF for nvidia card wine transplate VTF code to openGL.......

    "Besides, any new laptop with Ati graphics supports DX10+ (incl. VTF)."

    Yes i know!

    But...... the OpenSource driver do not support VTF,,,, only openGL2 for amd VTF is openGL3 !
    Qaridarium, Far Cry does not use Vertex Texture Fetch. Not on nvidia, not on ati, not anywhere.
    Quote Originally Posted by Game Developer Conference
    Far Cry uses the latest DirectX 9 features

    - Shader Models 2.x/3.0
    - - Except for vertex textures and dynamic flow control
    Source

    (The reason why it doesn't use VTF and flow control is that both are too slow on nvidia's SM3 hardware and VTF isn't even supported on Ati's SM3 hardware. On the other hand, flow control is actually pretty fast on R500.)

  4. #174

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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaridarium View Post
    realy Opengl in wine is not so shiny as in theorie.....
    there are Windows-Only-OpenGL-Extansions!
    exampel: WOW in openGL modus you can't see the mini-map---

    only DirectX modus brings the full game to work!...

    I'm so sorry to you kano but windows games use windows-only-extansions in the OpenGL modus... useless for wine!
    In case of OpenGL mode WoW renders the map using pbuffers. At this point only the closed source Nvidia and AMD drivers support those. Blizzard should have updated this code a long time ago to use FBOs but they didn't.

  5. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbird View Post
    In case of OpenGL mode WoW renders the map using pbuffers. At this point only the closed source Nvidia and AMD drivers support those. Blizzard should have updated this code a long time ago to use FBOs but they didn't.
    i know that.... but the openGL renderer of wow is obsolete...

    wine can handle the directX9 renderer of WOW nerly perfekt 100%..

    no one need this buggy pbuffer openGL-windows-only-extansion

  6. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackStar View Post
    Qaridarium, Far Cry does not use Vertex Texture Fetch. Not on nvidia, not on ati, not anywhere.

    Source

    (The reason why it doesn't use VTF and flow control is that both are too slow on nvidia's SM3 hardware and VTF isn't even supported on Ati's SM3 hardware. On the other hand, flow control is actually pretty fast on R500.)
    ok but.... you don't get the Point!

    the Point is!... emulate all DX9-shader3 in GSGL is very very very slow!

    only openGL3.2 speed them up!

    you need to port all needed openGL3.2 exstansions to X1xxx card and mesa...

  7. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kano View Post
    That's not fully sure if that's a wine problem. Did you crosscheck if it works with nvidia? Maybe the emulated d3d layer uses a different way to show it. Maybe let somebody test with nvidia hardware and that game, i do not play it.
    the problem is obsolet after wine can handle 100% of the directX9 wow code..

    it was just an single-point argument again your post...

    not so important realy.... the next WOW will ne OpenGL only based on openGL3.2

  8. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by bridgman View Post
    I do agree with your bad feeling about OpenGL but I do have "less of a bad feeling" thanks to the changes that appeared in OpenGL 3.2.
    yes OpenGL3.2 is a good move forward.

    now you can use windows directX CAD software on wine/linux ;-)

    in my personal hope this will make Quatro/fireGL Die Faster ;-)

  9. #179
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    Qaridarium, I really don't understand what your point is. It is obvious that emulating HLSL shaders via GLSL is always going to take more resources than the real thing. In some cases, the difference may be small enough to not matter. In others, you are going to need to upgrade your hardware before you can get decent performance. Finally, there may be some cases that you cannot emulate correctly no matter how hard you try (it's impossible to emulate geometry shaders without EXT_geometry_shader; it's impossible to emulate hull/tesselation shaders in OpenGL right now).

    Why are you acting so surprised at this? If you want native performance, play a native game. If you want to emulate a game, you need to be aware that you'll get lower performance and compatibility.

  10. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackStar View Post
    Qaridarium, I really don't understand what your point is. It is obvious that emulating HLSL shaders via GLSL is always going to take more resources than the real thing.
    thats wrong! wine wins tons of benchmarks!
    wine win on 3Dmark2000 and 3Dmark2001!!!

    wine +openGL3.2 can also win in old directX8 and dx9 benchmarks!
    thats because openGL3+ is faster than directX8/9...

    you have a wrong unterstanding abaut the HLSL to GLSL bridge
    there is no need to translate it all the time!

    only the game starts slower!

    after that the complete translatet GSGL code load in the card and run nonstop.
    in theorie there is no speed 'lose' but you can also doe optimations...
    you can handle DX8 code in DX10/DX11 style...

    a modern GPU hd5870 is faster in a real dx11/Ogl3.2 code than in a DX8 code!
    thats because the ram speed limitis and DX8 do not use DX11 Texture Compression.





    Quote Originally Posted by BlackStar View Post
    In others, you are going to need to upgrade your hardware before you can get decent performance.
    thats only true because your hardware always needs more extansions than the orginal software needs...

    a DX9 based game runs well on a X1950.. but the same game loses in wine on this card...
    but a much slower card like the 4350 or 54xx can "Win"
    thats because wine translate the old code into a new openGL3.2 stylish code...

    much better texture compression save ramspeed and bring more fps!

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackStar View Post
    Finally, there may be some cases that you cannot emulate correctly no matter how hard you try (it's impossible to emulate geometry shaders without EXT_geometry_shader; it's impossible to emulate hull/tesselation shaders in OpenGL right now).
    what da fu.k?????

    "EXT_geometry_shader" is a nvidia only extansion but OpenGL3.2 do not need this for the same because in ogl3.2 there is a geometry_shader !

    you also can emulate a 'tesselation shader' thats because of the amd-OGL extansions! ...

    yes there are some dx11 features left in openGL3.2,,,,,, but OpenGL4 comes in the future be sure.




    Quote Originally Posted by BlackStar View Post
    Why are you acting so surprised at this? If you want native performance, play a native game. If you want to emulate a game, you need to be aware that you'll get lower performance and compatibility.
    you do not get the Point of wine...... wine isn't a emulator.-..

    there is no emulator!......

    wine also does not emulate shader HLSL code... wine is a compiler!
    wine is a shader compiler compiles old shader in newstylish shader
    compile HLSL shader into GLSL shader....

    there is no emulator! nativ hardware speed! NO emulator!

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