Ubuntu is NOT a part of community

[mugginz]

Are you sure Kubuntu uses generic KDE without some 'special' patches (or it was just hit by broken packaging...)? I'm sure Arch Linux used generic KDE and there weren't such problems like in Kubuntu 9.04. Fedora is the worst KDE distro, because it's full of Gnome's rubbish.

Kubuntu does have their own patches, or at least Debian does. I've looked through the pathces for kdebase 4.3.2 and there wasn't anything ground breaking there. This is a summary of what I found with regard to lines changed.

 1 line   apps/konsole/data/profiles/Shell.profile
20 lines  apps/konqueror/about/launch.html
34 lines  apps/konqueror/about/konq_aboutpage.cc
14 lines  apps/konqueror/src/konqmain.cpp
 1 line   apps/plasma/applets/folderview/iconview.cpp
 1 line   apps/dolphin/src/panels/information/phononwidget.cpp
 1 line   apps/dolphin/src/panels/information/phononwidget.h
 1 line   apps/dolphin/src/settingsdolphin_directoryviewpropertysettings.kcfg
 4 lines  apps/kdialog/kdialog.cpp
 1 line   apps/kfind/kfinddlg.cpp
 1 line   apps/kfind/kfindpart.cpp
 1 line   apps/kfind/kfind.cpp
15 lines  apps/kdepasswd/kcm/main.cpp
 3 lines  apps/kdepasswd/kcm/main_widget.ui
11 lines  apps/konqueror/src/konqmainwindow.cpp
 4 lines  apps/dolphin/src/panels/terminal/terminalpanel.cpp

Nothing in there would suggest they broke anything but I wasn't very thorough

The breakage you saw might relate to different states of things due to library versions, etc. (or maybe Debian/Kubuntu have been ham fisted in their patches )

KDE has been rapidly stabilising and things seem to change for the better each week. (Can't wait for 4.4)

[gordboy]

Agree with title of thread

Ubuntu and its brethren have made a significant impact on the whole of personal computing, not just in the linux frothosphere. And so on balance, I consider it/them to be a Good Thing (TM).

But the fact remains, they contribute virtually NOTHING to the linux community. You only have to look at the laughable PPAs to realise how Mickey-Mouse the so-called "ubuntu community" is.

As for the ubuntu forums, they are chock full of frankly dangerous nonsense. Yes there is some goodness in there, but you need a keen eye, and a lot of patience to find it.

When it comes to the product itself, ubuntu is generally speaking, more than adequate. Altho 9.10 has had its fair share of justified criticism.

So what I would like to see is a general improvement in the education process. It is not enough to promote so-called "developers" beyond their abilities and hope they will somehow improve. Linux is an expert system, built by experts for experts, and when you let children play with it, there can only be one outcome.

[BlackStar]

So what I would like to see is a general improvement in the education process. It is not enough to promote so-called "developers" beyond their abilities and hope they will somehow improve.

What do you mean "education process"? Who are those "developers" you speak of and how are they different than "real" developers?

Also, how would you go about turning plain users and "developers" into "real" developers?

Linux is an expert system, built by experts for experts,

Wrong, Ubuntu specifically targets non-expert users (the whole "Linux for human beings" moto).

and when you let children play with it, there can only be one outcome.

Which is?

[kraftman]

Kubuntu does have their own patches, or at least Debian does. I've looked through the pathces for kdebase 4.3.2 and there wasn't anything ground breaking there. This is a summary of what I found with regard to lines changed.

Yes, there's nothing terrible here. Thanks for you effort to providing this.

The breakage you saw might relate to different states of things due to library versions, etc. (or maybe Debian/Kubuntu have been ham fisted in their patches )

It could be like that. Btw. Kubuntu 9.10 is great in my opinion and 10.04lts can be even better thanks to TL project.

KDE has been rapidly stabilising and things seem to change for the better each week. (Can't wait for 4.4)

Yes, me too.

[mugginz]

Ubuntu and its brethren have made a significant impact on the whole of personal computing, not just in the linux frothosphere. And so on balance, I consider it/them to be a Good Thing (TM).

Would totally agree here.

But the fact remains, they contribute virtually NOTHING to the linux community. You only have to look at the laughable PPAs to realise how Mickey-Mouse the so-called "ubuntu community" is.

If the only thing they ever contributed to the community was to focus everybody on usability I would still congratulate them and be most grateful for this. But not only have they done this, they've also committed their own code, as well as money and man-power to various projects.

I'm also not sure why you consider the PPA's "mickey mouse"?

As for the ubuntu forums, they are chock full of frankly dangerous nonsense. Yes there is some goodness in there, but you need a keen eye, and a lot of patience to find it.

Interesting. I find much "help" in the intertubes for all flavours of Linux. Some of it good and some not so good. Nothing Ubuntu centric there. Most of the help in the Ubuntu forums is provided by knowledgeable end users and so Canonical can hardly be blamed for any of it that which you consider bad.

When it comes to the product itself, ubuntu is generally speaking, more than adequate. Altho 9.10 has had its fair share of justified criticism.

Would agree with the main thrust of this statement. I would say however that Ubuntu provides the best out-of-box experience for a desktop distro at the moment.

So what I would like to see is a general improvement in the education process. It is not enough to promote so-called "developers" beyond their abilities and hope they will somehow improve. Linux is an expert system, built by experts for experts, and when you let children play with it, there can only be one outcome.

Many consider Linux to be "built by experts for experts" and there are many that wish it would stay that way. I'm glad that's changing though as even an expert doesn't always want to be dealing with trivial breakage and minute minutia just so they can get some work done.

[nicocarbone]

Most of the people in this thread can be put in two categories:

-People who use Ubuntu and like it
-People who have never used Ubuntu and hate it

Don't you see the problem?

Canonical has created a great free and open product. It has contributed to make GNU/Linux a valid operating system for the average user, and that is great for the Linux community in general.

And don't see enough evidence that Canonical does not collaborate with the community the way it should. Even if that were the case, I think Ubuntu is still a positive force.

[rbmorse]

So what I would like to see is a general improvement in the education process. It is not enough to promote so-called "developers" beyond their abilities and hope they will somehow improve. Linux is an expert system, built by experts for experts, and when you let children play with it, there can only be one outcome.

So, where are all these "experts" who are supposed to ride to the rescue and fix all the crapware? And, why haven't they done it, yet?

[mugginz]

It could be like that. Btw. Kubuntu 9.10 is great in my opinion and 10.04lts can be even better thanks to TL project.

If 9.10's anything to go by, 10.04 is going to be fricken awesome.

I think we're now starting to see the platform really round out in all the important areas.

Would like to see more in regards to non-linear video editing, but that's starting to come along nicely.

[BlackStar]

Most of the people in this thread can be put in two categories:

-People who use Ubuntu and like it
-People who have never used Ubuntu and hate it

Don't you see the problem?

Canonical has created a great free and open product. It has contributed to make GNU/Linux a valid operating system for the average user, and that is great for the Linux community in general.

And don't see enough evidence that Canonical does not collaborate with the community the way it should. Even if that were the case, I think Ubuntu is still a positive force.

Well said!

This whole charade was started by Greg KH's hate-fueled rants, who passed his torch down to miserable trolls looking for something to bash. Hey, who cares if I've never used Ubuntu? The distro is slow, parasitic and just plain sucks - Greg said so himself!

I'm not saying that Ubuntu is perfect and that there's nothing they can improve. Far from it!

However, I know a troll-speech when I see one. You see, there's that little sticking point where Greg actually works for Novell and would like nothing better than having his non-free SUSE darling take the place of Ubuntu as the "mainstream distro". Think about this for a little, and you'll see that his rants start making a lot more sense.

Why else would he deliberately miscalculate his "contribution stats"? (His numbers were completely wrong and he was called out for it *during* his speech.) Why else would he deliver the speech so maliciously? (not disclosing his Novell affiliation, conveniently ignoring the places where Ubuntu actually *does* make contributions, like Gnome and KDE, refusing to discuss his gripes with Shuttleworth afterwards...)

Unfortunately for him, Ubuntu has managed something that SUSE might never be able to do: it has broken the confines of the Linux ecosystem and has entered the mainstream consciousness. Ask a typical Windows user if he's ever heard of something called "Linux" and he might answer, "yeah, isn't that the Ubuntu thing I was reading about the other day? Have you tried it?" He sure as hell won't answer "hey, I've heard of a cool distro called openSUSE!"

Edit: 9.10 is made of pure, half-baked win. It's a taste of what is going to come with 10.04. You can see that this is a work-in-progress release, but the half-cooked morsels are very tasty!

Ubuntu has picked up a lot of momentum since ~8.10 and, unless they somehow manage to blow it, 10.04 is going to be *awesome*.

[Ant P.]

Well said!

This whole charade was started by Greg KH's hate-fueled rants, who passed his torch down to miserable trolls looking for something to bash. Hey, who cares if I've never used Ubuntu? The distro is slow, parasitic and just plain sucks - Greg said so himself!

I'm not saying that Ubuntu is perfect and that there's nothing they can improve. Far from it!

However, I know a troll-speech when I see one.

Hey, so do I.