Radeon and xorg

[pingufunkybeat]

. I consider when an OS boots up and it crashes BECAUSE of the video driver to be considered NOT WORKING.

I completely agree. Your Operating System is NOT WORKING.

The free drivers on my computer are fantastic, and my operating system is working.

Without any configuration via xorg.conf.

BTW, does anyone know whether nVidia drivers can be shipped with live CD distros? I remember always having to install it by hand back when I used nVidia.

[Panix]

Yes, it somewhat works in Ubuntu 9.04 so with older kernel and radeon driver, it has *some* desktop effects enabled by default. However, there is a difference. For e.g., I open 'Terminal' and it's not the same effects as when doing the same in 9.10. There is an xorg.conf file in 9.04 but not in 9.10. When you open Terminal console in ubuntu 9.10, there is the 'wavy' screen and then it's back to normal. So, some effects are working but not when opening Firefox. It crashes in 9.10 when you open FF.

I can't agree or disagree if it's the OS. Seems like both. But, I think that someone INCLUDING ATI has decided to ignore/neglect what's going on. One could buy a $300 Dell D600/D610 or Thinkpad T4x series with the same video card and would know EXACTLY what I'm talking about. I tried Ubuntu mostly so I can say it went through several revisions until release with the same issues/symptoms with the open source radeon driver. Why is this ignored and why are some people making excuses? I don't understand it.

If it was an Nvidia FX 5200 or Intel GMA950 even in the laptop, there probably wouldn't be any issues and desktop effects would work without crashing the system no matter which distro even if it's an up-to-date kernel version!

[Kano]

nvidia drivers replace many files - just like fglrx, there it is mainly mesa but still. It is possible to ship em installed if you add very tricky switching code on the fly but usally the better way is to install those on demand manually. With Kanotix you could just call a script.

[Melcar]

I have radeon running on my 200M and it works fine, desktop effects (Compiz or Kwin) and all.

[Panix]

Unforunately, the only driver available is the open source and I'm not experienced at editing xorg.conf (for ATI drivers). I only have experience at installing the Nvidia driver on a desktop.

Here's another bug report with people asking for ATI to answer.

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+s...ux/+bug/394263

I have radeon running on my 200M and it works fine, desktop effects (Compiz or Kwin) and all.

Um...okay?????

[bridgman]

Are you sure you posted the right link ? I didn't see anyone waiting for ATI input and the problem was just that KMS was accidentally enabled in early versions of the kernel. Once KMS was turned off in the distro kernel everything seemed to work fine.

[smitty3268]

It sounds to me like the real issue here is that the newer version of the r200 mesa driver is broken, at least on your card. I don't think many devs are focusing on it or the r100 cards, and all the DRI2/KMS code churn that's been going on lately has taken it's toll.

An no, this isn't ATI specific. Intel has had even worse problems lately when they switched over. There were just a bunch of commits to the KMS code in the next kernel that are supposed to fix a bunch of stability problems they had with older hardware. NVidia has done better, but then they have their own entire graphics stack and haven't had to upgrade it the drastic way the OSS drivers have been.

[Panix]

It sounds to me like the real issue here is that the newer version of the r200 mesa driver is broken, at least on your card. I don't think many devs are focusing on it or the r100 cards, and all the DRI2/KMS code churn that's been going on lately has taken it's toll.

An no, this isn't ATI specific. Intel has had even worse problems lately when they switched over. There were just a bunch of commits to the KMS code in the next kernel that are supposed to fix a bunch of stability problems they had with older hardware. NVidia has done better, but then they have their own entire graphics stack and haven't had to upgrade it the drastic way the OSS drivers have been.

Perhaps, but at least someone with an older laptop equipped with older Nvidia GPU can use their laptop and all the features the distro has.

So, should I wait for distros to move to the next kernel? My options are to install a distro version with an older kernel and then wait or use any distro but don't enable desktop effects?

Btw, I tried an experiment in which I edited xorg.conf and tried EXA first and the screen/windows would not repaint correctly and constantly flickered. Very unusable. I then changed acceleration to XAA and soon after, the system locked up and required a hard restart.

Not that it matters but interesting, I guess.

[bridgman]

It sounds like things were working with Ubuntu 9.04 but you didn't like some of the default settings - would it make sense to use that as a starting point and tweak from there ?

Perhaps, but at least someone with an older laptop equipped with older Nvidia GPU can use their laptop and all the features the distro has.

You might want to double check that. The r2xx family was our 2001 product line, with a cost-reduced version introduced in 2002 as a low end part to go with the new r300.

I believe the corresponding NV parts were GF2 MX and GF3 : http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showt...010#post100010

Keeping older hardware working with current Linux distros is hard for everyone. The nice thing about open source drivers is that they allow support to trail off gracefully (as community interest fades) rather than cutting off abruptly.

[Panix]

I never said I didn't like the 9.04 default settings. I merely suspected or guessed that the desktop effects settings aren't optimized as they seem to be in the default boot up of 9.10 Karmic.

I believe the corresponding NV parts were GF2 MX and GF3

Okay, fine. But, the Radeon 7500 to 9200, say, are most often in these older, Pentium M or Centrino laptops. Even ones after that generation often have Radeon IGP cards which must use the open source driver, I suspect. Yet, when you consider the numbers, the performance/issues seem to be similar or the same. With all these machines at their disposal, why is the support still lousy (my opinion)?

Keeping older hardware working with current Linux distros is hard for everyone. The nice thing about open source drivers is that they allow support to trail off gracefully (as community interest fades) rather than cutting off abruptly.

Community interest fades? Those laptops are still okay machines. Sure, they are not the latest and greatest and only cost $300+ so cheap compared to the newer Core 2 Duos and AMD machines out now. But, there is way more machines with these older ATI cards compared to the mix/mash of newer Radeon HD ones, I am guessing. I just think it sucks to just ignore those users. Also, no one expects a super duper 3D experience with such old machines but crashing automatically?!?

It can be frustrating that you have to 'be a developer' and experiment with various settings in a crapshoot attempt to try and find the right combination of settings, too, which seems like what is going on. Maybe things are broken but some of us like to learn and try to 'fix things' but no one who has access and knowledge gives any info of what's going on.