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Thread: More Developers Want GNOME 3.0 Delayed

  1. #21
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    Between Gnome and KDE, it's actually KDE that serves little use.

    There are, after all, plenty of other desktops besides KDE that don't treat the user like a moron. But nothing comes close to Gnome's contempt for its own users.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kazade View Post
    I know I'm feeding the troll here... but how exactly do the GNOME devs "do everything they can to stay incompatible and screw over KDE" exactly?

    All I see is that they are pursuing one vision of a desktop and KDE is pursuing another. It's not deliberate sabotage, and both desktops follow the freedesktop.org standards so if anything they are working towards being more compatible.

    But yeah, you just sit there act like a child, instead of you know, making constructive points like an adult.
    hal, *kit, and all that freedesktop stuff is completly gnome-centric. When developing kde4, they had to fight a lot with dbus - thanks to gnome.

    Gnome is the cancer that kills the linux desktop. And Ubuntu is its vector.

  3. #23
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    @energyman:

    Well I do have past experience about asking one gnomer while he was working on some cross platform theming for gtk+ 3.0 about filepickers and OK Cancel position on different on platforms... So I was asked to file bugreport / feature request about it and the response I got was did I check that gtk+ already does that? or are you volunteering ... Quite rude responses imho that discourage any future bug reports or feature requests.

    ...


    Of course I'm biased as I'm using KDE but you know in my above comment I really tried to stay objective and constructive. IMHO same platform and toolkit would be a great thing and with gnome 3.0 on the way it was a good time to change toolkits too. Here we go into pride issue though as gtk+ is theirs and Qt well the K guys use it so no no way(even though qt is not strictly kde technology). The same issue as with kde khtml devs sticking to their engine although the obvious future is with the forked webkit.

    I really hoped GCDS would lead to at least some technology sharing and cooperation ... It seems though it was wishful thinking.
    Last edited by val-gaav; 11-05-2009 at 09:50 AM.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by energyman View Post
    hal, *kit, and all that freedesktop stuff is completly gnome-centric. When developing kde4, they had to fight a lot with dbus - thanks to gnome.

    How is FreeDesktop gnome-centric exactly? Also, DBUS was the standardized offspring of DCOP which was developed for KDE. KDE devs had as much, if not more, input into the development of DBUS and it was always intended to replace DCOP in KDE4.

    Gnome is the cancer that kills the linux desktop. And Ubuntu is its vector.
    You're right, we'd better tell Linus. Saying that Ubuntu, the most successful desktop Linux distribution in the world, is killing the Linux desktop just doesn't make sense.

    @val-gaav Thanks for bringing some sane, adult discussion to this thread I dunno what it is about bug reports and developers being less than social on them. I guess some people don't like to admit when they are wrong. But that's hardly a GNOME-only issue, I've seen that all over the place.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabriah View Post
    Am I the only one who thinks that KDE 5.0 and Gnome 4.0 should be the same and only?

    The current situation does not look good. These major parallel efforts dilute a limited number of developers efforts. It creates far too intrusive alternatives on a far too low level.

    I can live with in a world with two, five or or even 25 different spreadsheets, as they are end applications and don't necessarily inherit code from each other. Still, most distributions today have a Gnome one and a KDE one, for the wrong reason. Widgets...

    Yes, I know the history behind both, and the C/C++ difference. But as both now have viable licences, the C/C++ is only a technical obstacle, in a world of engineers. Please, try to work for a merger.

    It would be interesting to hear reasons for and against maintaining both.
    Maybe we should simplify everything and just have one distro, one set of drivers, and one kernel. Hey the People working on BSDs are wasting there time duplicating everything. Oh wait you can get all of that great stuff in Mac OS X, why don't you just migrate to that if you don't want duplication.

    Also to all those people shitting on Gnome please start your own thread, its nice that you think Gnome is destroying the world, but can you at least do it in your own thread instead of just coming in here and wasting everyone's time with you rabble.

    I am no KDE "fan", but I will not go in to KDE topics and start trolling just because I think what they are working is a waste of time and they suck or something. Really I couldn't care less what KDE does, but I do still want them around just because it helps push Gnome.

  6. #26
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    One main linux distro is already happening (ubuntu). In a few years it will most likely continue to gain users.


    With that in mind flaming is a thing that comes up from bad experiences with environment. For example kde users may start hating gnome when installing firefox in kubuntu tries to download and install half of gnome. That example is not really strictly gnome fault though ... Same goes with windows it's not that linux users hate it just because ... they hate because they have to use it at work, some applications from it are not ported, because MS undermines open source .. etc etc.

    In my case I really hate the fact that gtk+ integrates just with gnome, and that they force their HIG on others. I do run some gtk+ apps but if those would integrate nicely with my desktop environment of choice I couldn't care less about the lib that's beneath those.

    If gnome and kde had good cooperation and did not cause problems one to each other then for sure there would be quite less people flaming in gnome vs kde threads. Flames have always some reason in frustration in people and this frustration is hardly because of one desktop having 5% more users then the other one.
    Last edited by val-gaav; 11-05-2009 at 11:37 AM.

  7. #27
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    In my case I really hate the fact that gtk+ integrates just with gnome, and that they force their HIG on others. I do run some gtk+ apps but if those would integrate nicely with my desktop environment of choice I couldn't care less about the lib that's beneath those.
    I'd really love it if both sides would get together and solve this issue once and for all.

    I'm running a number of Qt applications and they really don't integrate well into Gnome. The situation is much better than, say, 12 months ago (broken Qt font rendering that would force full hinting shudders), but I can still tell whether this is a GTK+ or Qt application just by looking at it.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by kraftman View Post
    Many people who migrate from other OS'es to Linux (Ubuntu in this case) have no idea there's another DE like KDE thus they beg for missing features at Ubuntu brainstorm, but KDE already has them. Show them both, one next to another and we'll see what they choose
    I choosed Gnome in that way

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by val-gaav View Post
    One main linux distro is already happening (ubuntu). In a few years it will most likely continue to gain users.

    Pretty much everybody that any sort of commercial interest or focuses on making Linux more acceptable to average person uses Gnome by default.


    With that in mind flaming is a thing that comes up from bad experiences with environment. For example kde users may start hating gnome when installing firefox in kubuntu tries to download and install half of gnome.

    Well especially that Firefox is not a Gnome application and has never had anything to do with Gnome. It's a Mozilla XUL application, which is entirely different from GTK or Gnome or anything else related to Gnome. Same thing with OpenOffice.org, which is not and has never been a GTK or Gnome application.

    Distros include those by default since they are useful applications, but they use their own toolkits and whatnot.



    That example is not really strictly gnome fault though ... Same goes with windows it's not that linux users hate it just because ... they hate because they have to use it at work, some applications from it are not ported, because MS undermines open source .. etc etc.
    I hate Windows because it is exceptionally unpleasant OS to use.



    If gnome and kde had good cooperation and did not cause problems one to each other then for sure there would be quite less people flaming in gnome vs kde threads. Flames have always some reason in frustration in people and this frustration is hardly because of one desktop having 5% more users then the other one.

    The flaming is because they think that Gnome being popular diminishes KDE. Which is just retarded and is not how the world works. It is not a zero sum game.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by val-gaav View Post
    For example kde users may start hating gnome when installing firefox in kubuntu tries to download and install half of gnome.
    I don't know that it's really that much of an issue. One could install every package on a distro's DVD and not put much of a dent in available disk space typically available on desktop today's systems. Disk space is cheap.

    Updates may take a bit longer, but not so much that users do much different than what they do now: quickly glance at the updates, start the process, and ignore it until it's done.

    The places it might be more significant would be in the design and implementation of embedded systems where resources are thin. For the average desktop user, not so much.

    I think the biggest stumbling block for users is how every other application uses a different file selector. How common features find themselves being hidden in different sub menus (file->settings, edit->settings, settings->options, tools->settings) from app to app. Heck there are things that even applications built with the same toolkit can't seem to agree on like whether each tab should have a close button or not (Konsole vs Konqueror vs Konversation vs Dolphin).

    It would be nice if KDE applications could use the GTK file selector and vice versa according to the user's preference. I doubt that will ever be much more than an idle daydream.

    Meh... they'll have to work much harder than they supposedly are to keep me from using both application flavors.

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