Please The Chef With Linux & Phoronix

[Danyul]

I think it's time for this thread to be locked before this gets out of control. I didn't want to do this but I'm going to have to.

@susikala No race or gender is inferior as a whole! Individuals can be lower in intelligence and contribute less to the advancement of the human race but NOT a race or specific gender and it's ignorant to say that.

The are so many white people who are lazy and are nothing but a drain on society and they fall in your white, male, heterosexual.

As a culture we have borrowed so much of what we are and what we know from other cultures and made it our own (even our language).

You would no doubt agree with me that people who are awarded with the Nobel Prize contribute very highly to the advancement of the human race and you just have to look at the huge number of females and other races that are awarded this achievement every year and your argument falls on its face.

If your statement is true it is because, and only because, it is the "most productive group" that literally held the others back from being more productive in the past.

@everyone

We should not be so ignorant to this and everybody has an equal place on this planet (talking about the right they are born with, not the conditions they are born into and where they choose to go from there) and should be given every opportunity to succeed.

I am simply against the forced and dramatic change to the way we are supposed to speak in neutral terms by people who claim tolerance but are intolerant to all that do not follow their guidance.

I am not against using some neutrality in my speech where appropriate but when it get to be a joke like 'baa baa rainbow sheep' and from postman to postperson I draw the line. If thats the case we should do the ultimate change and go from woman to woperson.

[susikala]

I think it's time for this thread to be locked before this gets out of control. I didn't want to do this but I'm going to have to.

@susikala No race or gender is inferior as a whole! Individuals can be lower in intelligence and contribute less to the advancement of the human race but NOT a race or specific gender and it's ignorant to say that.

The are so many white people who are lazy and are nothing but a drain on society and they fall in your white, male, heterosexual.

As a culture we have borrowed so much of what we are and what we know from other cultures and made it our own (even our language).

You would no doubt agree with me that people who are awarded with the Nobel Prize contribute very highly to the advancement of the human race and you just have to look at the huge number of females and other races that are awarded this achievement every year and your argument falls on its face.

If your statement is true it is because, and only because, it is the "most productive group" that literally held the others back from being more productive in the past.

You think it's time to lock this thread because someone expressed opinions that are different than yours or not considered mainstream or politically correct? Is that the meaning of free speech? I'm surprised to see such closed-mindedness on a FOSS forum, where I'd expect it the least.

Again, you catched on to the word 'inferior' and I was a bit wary to use it for fear people would pick on that.

I don't get your argument about the Nobel Prize, really: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/pe...rize-laureates

Guess what, the first twenty something countries listed there are composed, with the exception of Japan, of a majority of white people.

Per capita the statistics speak even a clearer language: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/pe...tes-per-capita

The first ten countries are _all_ in middle/north Europe.

And here is another winning conclusion, from the Wiki page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...obel_laureates:
'As of 2008, there have been 754 male Nobel laureates and 35 female laureates.'

And I bet many of those (probably recent) 35 are the result of overly political correctness, which is unfortunately pervading too many aspects of our lives and twisting our perception.

I'm not ignorant, I'm not even generalising, I'm just looking at facts. Men have better technical thinking, women are more feeling-driven. I don't know whether it's a good or a bad thing, it's just _reality_. Political correctness is humans trying to twist nature into their belief that "all people are equal". No we're not. Unless you're going to argue that men can bear babies.

[alexforcefive]

I am not against using some neutrality in my speech where appropriate but when it get to be a joke like 'baa baa rainbow sheep' and from postman to postperson I draw the line. If thats the case we should do the ultimate change and go from woman to woperson.

I agree that some things go too far, but this post isn't comparable to your examples. Complaining about the phrase "black sheep" is not the same as complaining about the casual sexism displayed in this article.

[Danyul]

@susikala I think this thread should be locked before this gets out of control simply because this is not the place for it. I am by no means saying that this discussion is inappropriate, Just that this isn't the place for it.

@alexforcefive I am drawing a parallel between these two because to me they are both a joke. Do you speak out against womens magazines that bash men? Do you speak out against nearly every black comedian making jokes about other races? Do many other people? Why or Why Not?

Now if someone white and male does this, why do PC advocates get all up in arms? They've taken a good idea of human equality and misapplied it to the most nonsensical degree.

Applying it to this article which I viewed the title as a sexual joke, not a sexist joke, taking of the countless spam emails we receive every week about pleasing our women with this enhancement or that product.

back @susikala While I know that not every race and gender are capable of the exact same things it does not mean they are not productive. You are, and I mistakenly did (@mendieta I'm an idiot too sometimes ;-P), try to measure progress from viewpoint that is not neutral.

What makes a better human race? Is it neutrality in everything? Progression in scientific fields towards the physical betterment and enlightened understanding of our surroundings? Is it an advance of technology to lessen the burden of the everyday work and increase the time we can spend in recreation? Is it a balance between us and our planet?

I don't believe it is any one thing that defines the human race as more progressive and I made a mistake by trying to pull in Nobel Prizes. Because from a different perspective a different group could be viewed as more progressive and your statement about bearing babies brought that to my mind :-P

[susikala]

Sorry, I have no notion of human races. Dogs have races. I think of it in terms of cultures. The white man's culture has thus far advanced the human race the most, it might change, and it might be that some don't view this as evolution but rather as devolution. Whatever you think though, it _is_ more comfortable to live today than in the past in the 'advanced' countries, or than in the third-world ones. It's _easier_, even, to get by and be happy.

And that you thank, by an overwhelming majority, to the white man's culture. It's not a matter of pride or boasting off (I hardly belong to those contributors), it's just stating the situation. Who knows, if history were different, we might have been depending on women, or black people. Though I doubt that, I believe nature is absolute, and that the human race would have evolved in this direction anyway.

Now, (overly) politically correct people just act self-destructively. They devoid our culture of any essence by equating everyone with everyone. Of course a woman can do the job and should be given opportunities to do it, but who can do it better? who can further us more? Statistics say it's white men.

I mean, heh, look at the average kernel developer...

[L33F3R]

Sorry, I have no notion of human races. Dogs have races. I think of it in terms of cultures.

its nice to see im not the only one who thinks like this.

[yotambien]

[snip incongruent babbling]

Your arguments are wrong at so many levels that I don't even know where to start from to clean the mess you left for our amusement.

It's not a happy coincidence that people get wary about sexist or racist comments or attitudes. History books tell us about the discrimination suffered by women and peoples of other 'races'. On the other hand, newspapers and day to day experience tell us about that very same discrimination in the present days. Precisely to correct this situation at every possible level is why affirmative action policies are adopted or why certain comments or speeches are not only unwelcomed but also punishable by law. Saying something about white heterosexual males is not the same sport, precisely because that group still sits in the privileged positions gained through centuries of oppression. That people like you equate both only shows the kind of hypocritical arguments with wich it is pretended to justify said discriminations and thus keep the status quo.

You talk about facts, picking them up without any critical consideration as to their validity or what may have caused them. Using the list of Nobel prizes to demonstrate some sort of superiority of white males is ridiculous. Women access to higher education is a very recent phenomenon, and the same has to be said about people from poorer countries or other traditionally oppressed groups. That they cope extremelly well when they are actually granted the opportunity brutally refutes any pretension at attributing this historic inequality to biology, culture or gender. Moreover, that women only recently gained access to the University is not a coincidence either, since their exclusion was a key component of the patriarchal world view, whereby women were artificially relegated to a secondary position both socially and economically. The causes of the smaller numbers of prominent scientists--or intelectuals in general--among other discriminated groups are not hard to understand either. To start with, the economic development enjoyed by western nations is built upon the exploitation of other countries. That India was one of the first world iron producers--a common industrial index--in the late eighteen century right before the British colonisation, while nowadays is still struggling to join the leading nations should give you a clue. Under hardship conditions is no wonder that people find it difficult to develop the ultimate theory of physics when the most basic needs are not covered. Having said this, much of the perception about the lack of 'advanced' cultures in other parts of the world is only a myth fed in the west from the early days at school. That you can't name a single chinese poet or an african phylosopher says more about your ignorance and the system you've grown up into than about reality.

But the main problem is not that your 'facts' do not explain what you would like them to. One big, fat issue with your arguments is that modernisation theories have been already debunked in the eighties and their assumptions are not tenable anymore. Of course, they are still used as an ideological weapon to justify certain policies (being Tony Blair and G. Bush two of their advocates). The another fundamental flaw is the notion of 'culture' your comments transpire--although with a great degree of confusion and incoherence, mixing up 'nature', 'culture', gender and sexual orientation. After the second world war--for obvious reasons--nobody dared to bring forth the argument of biological racism. The new trend, spanning up to our days, is cultural racism. Being the concept of race depleted of any meaning, now the differences are stressed through culture, with the result that exactly the same prejudices and attitudes of the past are now cheerfully passed under supposedly clean hands. But we know better; there is no difference between discriminating arabs because arabs or because muslims.

To finish, and since you seem so focused on human development--another problematic concept--I'll mention that even from a completely selfish point of view, the exploitation of other groups by white elites is a moral and material disaster. We will never know how many Socrates, Cervantes, Newtons or Einsteins the world never saw because they were busy working the land or struggling to survive. The same applies to the present days, where only a minority of the population has their basic needs granted and enough spare time to devote their efforts to more intelectual occupations like expanding the theoretical body of quantum mechanics, writing phylosophy or--since you mention it--coding the linux kernel. Relating human development to some 'natural' feature that white, heterosexual (!) males are endowed with only adds insult to injury.

[susikala]

Actually, I don't buy any of the post-modernist crap you wrote, yotambien. I invite you to emigrate to one of the countries whose people you consider equal (say Pakistan) and spread your advanced, prettily formulated, strongly bloated with self-admiration, but unfortunately completely pointless in face of the real world views there. That is, if you can.

[mendieta]

Is anyone actually moderating phoronix?

http://www.phoronix.com/forums/misc.php?do=showrules

By agreeing to these rules, you warrant that you will not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-oriented, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violative of any laws.

Aren't neonazi, openly sexist, anti-women, anti-non-white, inflammatory comments way beyound what's acceptable in this forum?

Apparently not.

The reason I participate in free and open source initiatives is mainly ethical/philosophical. I have never seen comments or situations like this in other forums (Mandrake/Mandriva back in the day, LUG mailing lists, Ubuntuforums, Kubuntuforums).

I have no reasons to stay in this forum whatsoever. I won't be part of a group that tolerates nazi speach. I hope I can close my account, if anyone has a pointer on how to do what, it would be appreciated. I didn't see an option in the control panel.

Thanks

[Danyul]

Nope, no way. Once you're in, you're IN! HAHAHAHA