Red Hat Joins Khronos, The Group Behind OpenGL & Vulkan

[belal1]

next time you will ask why do they do gnome and libreoffice?
maybe you are living in some fantasy world?

Well we know that GNOME and LibreOffice are packaged along with RHEL. So it would be in their best interest to have these software developed since customers who use RHEL would rely on these software. However when it comes to OpenGL, we don't have the same situation. OpenGL is a backend software. Now through some digging, we can see that Red Hat does not include OpenGL in their distribution but instead packages MESA. It's possible that by joining the Khronos Group, Red Hat can now package OpenGL with their distribution and any technical reasons why they could not can be ironed out since they can submit extensions which is what Christian Schaller was blogging about. While that does not directly affect the front side of Red Hat since customers wouldn't see the effect like they would if LibreOffice or GNOME were changed, it does facilitate the use of OpenGL applications so it enhances their competency. But that's just speculation.

Now why would I be living in a fantasy world? Was that a loathsome joke? Kindly refrain from insults if you cannot think of civilized responses.

[Dharc]

[QUOTE=MoonMoon;484433]GNU: portable
GNOME: portable
Wayland: portable
open source drivers: drivers are usually aimed at using a specific kernel, so I don't see yopur point here. Anyways, the BSDs actually port Linux drivers to their kernels, so: portable
Linux: Hmm, OK, I would like to see what a portable kernel is, I can't imagine such a thing

Docker: It specifically uses Linux features, but I don't see any real hurdles to port it to other systems that provide similar functionality (namespaces and a COW filesystem), but I give you this one

Do you realize the contradiction? The docker case is exactly all other cases (except GNU and Linux). GNU is portable because, thank God, is not a Red Hat project. Thank God too RMS is one of the responsibles by POSIX creation.

GNOME: depends on Linuxisms like systemd-logind, NetworkManager and BlueZ, last both are linux-specific.
Wayland: Weston depends on libudev
open source drivers: depends on Linux, but this is forgivable because all monolithic kernels have theirs own drivers, but not the ideal considering they are open sources.
So you are wrong, what you said about Docker "It specifically uses Linux features" is valid for GNOME and Wayland too, and we can include the NetworkManager too . Good to remember.

So from the 6 things you named only one can count as not portable (leaving the Linux kernel aside, I am still baffled by that, to what would you port the Linux kernel?), so calling RH a company that develops non-portable software is far fetched at best.

Being more specific non-portable made by Red Hat as a "community" softwares:
-systemd (It specifically uses Linux features = cgroups and a lot of others)
-GNOME (It specifically uses Linux features = systemd-logind thing)
-Wayland, specifically Weston (It specifically uses Linux features = libudev)
-drivers, but this is forgivable
-NetworkManager (It specifically uses Linux features = non-POSIX enough)
-pulseaudio (take a long time to reach non-Lnux systems, pulseaudio 6.0 have reached FreeBSD just now)
-Docker (like you said It specifically uses Linux features)
-Btrfs (I won't need to talk about it, right?)
- and man, the Xorg server maybe too. X11 was created to Unixes, and now it's a Linux-centered project. This is ridiculous.

In the meantime, you tell us that Microsoft can be trusted more than Red Hat, because a few of their dozens of software projects get open sourced.

Yes, this could be true if they open Windows any time soon and make theirs open source projects more portable than RH things, ie, accepting portability patches for non-Windows systems.

Yes, I still stand by that, you are a conspiracy theorist and your opinions are not based on facts.

Study history first to come here talk my opinions are not based on facts. The argument is clear: RH doesn't have any reasons enough to invest in graphics specifications except have another arm in the open source world! If you study history you will see anything like that is a good thing -_-. Period!

Or, the other possibility, you try to be a troll and utterly fail with that.

Oh, the classic "troll" talk when one person don't agree wih you. All the non-sociable people appeal to this label when they know themselves are wrong!

[RahulSundaram]

OpenGL is a backend software. Now through some digging, we can see that Red Hat does not include OpenGL in their distribution but instead packages MESA. It's possible that by joining the Khronos Group, Red Hat can now package OpenGL with their distribution

That doesn't make any sense. OpenGL is a specification. Mesa is an implementation of the specification. Red Hat already includes OpenGL capabilities via Mesa. One cannot "package" OpenGL directly. Joining a consortium is about developing the specifications further as a combined effort with other vendors.

[bridgman]

Now through some digging, we can see that Red Hat does not include OpenGL in their distribution but instead packages MESA. It's possible that by joining the Khronos Group, Red Hat can now package OpenGL with their distribution and any technical reasons why they could not can be ironed out since they can submit extensions which is what Christian Schaller was blogging about.

Huh ? Mesa is the OpenGL driver on a typical Linux system. If you're saying that they can't use the OpenGL trademark without being a Khronos member that's probably correct (unless there's already a relationship between mesa & Khronos that I missed), but it's also a pretty small point IMO. As others have said ability to submit extensions and contribute to the evolution of the core standard is probably the bigger issue.

[erendorn]

Well we know that GNOME and LibreOffice are packaged along with RHEL. So it would be in their best interest to have these software developed since customers who use RHEL would rely on these software. However when it comes to OpenGL, we don't have the same situation. OpenGL is a backend software. Now through some digging, we can see that Red Hat does not include OpenGL in their distribution but instead packages MESA. It's possible that by joining the Khronos Group, Red Hat can now package OpenGL with their distribution and any technical reasons why they could not can be ironed out since they can submit extensions which is what Christian Schaller was blogging about. While that does not directly affect the front side of Red Hat since customers wouldn't see the effect like they would if LibreOffice or GNOME were changed, it does facilitate the use of OpenGL applications so it enhances their competency. But that's just speculation.

Now why would I be living in a fantasy world? Was that a loathsome joke? Kindly refrain from insults if you cannot think of civilized responses.

Or maybe just about everyone is in the Khronos group, so what is actually surprising is that they weren't any sooner?

https://www.khronos.org/members/contributors

There were already Microsoft, Canonical, Valve, Google, Apple and Mozilla (and even Continental, the ones that make tires).

Maybe you could speculate less and research more before you rant on forums

[MoonMoon]

GNOME: depends on Linuxisms like systemd-logind, NetworkManager and BlueZ, last both are linux-specific.

Gnome runs on OpenBSD and the OpenBSD guys are developing systembsd as replacement for what you call "linuxisms", which in reality are just DBUS services offered by systemd that can be offered by any other software. So, Gnome is indeed portable.

Wayland: Weston depends on libudev

Weston is only the reference implementation for a Wayland compositor. Claiming that Wayland is not portable because one implementation depends on udev is simply a non-sequitur.

So you are wrong, what you said about Docker "It specifically uses Linux features" is valid for GNOME and Wayland too,

No, it is not, as I have explained. Better do your homework, but I know that ignorance is bliss for conspiracy guys, otherwise their world view wouldn't work.

[asdfblah]

This is one of the reasons RH wants to join Khronos:

http://cgit.freedesktop.org/mesa/mesa/log/?qt=author&q=redhat.com

[The Walking Glitch]

His concern is that Red Hat is slowly taking over by dictating their interests and telling anyone else to fuck off and die/fall into irrelevance. That's not a theory of any sort, it's already happened, is happening, and will continue to happen. By definition it IS a conspiracy, and RedHat is none-too-shy about letting people know their agenda.

Well, he was suggesting RH is going Microsoft on open source ecosystem. How is that not a conspiracy theory?

---

1: You jump straight to insults.
2: You can't even spell your insults properly.
3: See the first part of my post.

3 strikes, you're out.

i'm with you, duchebags shouldn't be labelled "conspiracy theorist", they should be called duchebags

[airlied]

His concern is that Red Hat is slowly taking over by dictating their interests and telling anyone else to fuck off and die/fall into irrelevance. That's not a theory of any sort, it's already happened, is happening, and will continue to happen. By definition it IS a conspiracy, and RedHat is none-too-shy about letting people know their agenda.

We have big meetings every few months in Red Hat around a big villan table, myself, Lennart, Kay, GNOME devs, Wayland devs, secret kernel hackers team, and we each get a turn stroking the cat and cackling, and saying how we are going to make BSD and Solaris more useless, but then we realised lack of devs/funds to BSD and Oracle have done that for us, so turn to asking for a billion dollars.

wow there are some real whack jobs in the forums, like tin foil hats and medication probably can't fix the crazy.

I kinda wish RH had some sort of supreme overlord dictator internally dictating what I work on, from where I sit its a bunch of individual developers who have some vague ideas of what they think a Linux OS should look like.

Dave.

[chimpy]

We have big meetings every few months in Red Hat around a big villan table, myself, Lennart, Kay, GNOME devs, Wayland devs, secret kernel hackers team, and we each get a turn stroking the cat and cackling, and saying how we are going to make BSD and Solaris more useless, but then we realised lack of devs/funds to BSD and Oracle have done that for us, so turn to asking for a billion dollars.

wow there are some real whack jobs in the forums, like tin foil hats and medication probably can't fix the crazy.

I kinda wish RH had some sort of supreme overlord dictator internally dictating what I work on, from where I sit its a bunch of individual developers who have some vague ideas of what they think a Linux OS should look like.

Dave.

I hear Red Hat has an evil secret lair inside a volcano (english for VULKAN!). That can't be coincident.