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The Latest Round Of GNOME's Outreach Program For Women Wraps Up

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  • #21
    Originally posted by kigurai View Post
    I haven't heard *anyone* suggest that this is done deliberately (i.e. intentionally). There might be a few really, really big assholes who deliberately try to keep women out, but for the most parts I'd say this is more a component of culture which makes it hard for us men to actually notice it.
    Perhaps that's true. But why is it on us men to change every time? If I want to join a team or project I think coming in and making demands that the current members change to accommodate me isn't a very good way to do it. That goes doubly if I actually don't even want to join.

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    • #22
      Originally posted by nils_ View Post
      Perhaps that's true. But why is it on us men to change every time? If I want to join a team or project I think coming in and making demands that the current members change to accommodate me isn't a very good way to do it. That goes doubly if I actually don't even want to join.
      You are making the very strange assumptions that women don't want to join.
      Second, no one is asking you to do anything other than, maybe behave in a respectful way? Hint, the kind of comments displayed in this thread (not necessarily singling out yours) or trying to deny that there is a problem is not really helping.
      As far as I know OPW is an iniative from within. I.e. people who are already involved in open source is having an iniative to have more women join. Stop trying to twist to seem like some kind of alien external force.

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      • #23
        Originally posted by kigurai View Post
        You are making the very strange assumptions that women don't want to join.
        I don't have to make assumptions, just look at the special outreach programs that are going on and how little response they usually get.

        Second, no one is asking you to do anything other than, maybe behave in a respectful way? Hint, the kind of comments displayed in this thread (not necessarily singling out yours) or trying to deny that there is a problem is not really helping.
        I don't think comment sections on the internet are particularly representative because they are usually filled with people who have an axe to grind and many aren't actually involved in any OS projects (neither am I at the moment) or work in the field. You can't use this as a benchmark. I'm still dubios as to the prove that somehow developers in a particular project or people working in IT (a very, very diverse bunch) are systemically treating women with less respect than the rest of their peers.

        As far as I know OPW is an iniative from within. I.e. people who are already involved in open source is having an iniative to have more women join. Stop trying to twist to seem like some kind of alien external force.
        I'm not speaking specifically to this program, because I don't care one way or the other.

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        • #24
          I have nothing against outreach programs. However, the uneven ratio of men and women in tech needs to be dealt with at schools and universities. Employers should hire on merit, and not give a fuck about sex/race/sexuality at all. We need to make the pool of potential workers 50/50, not 50/50 hiring quotas.

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          • #25
            Originally posted by iterativ View Post
            Maybe it is so.

            But again, can we just blind ourselves to the injustice and corrupt society ? Let's state some facts. Land owners are 99% men, 1% women. Like the land should be owned by anyone... Let's use a so called developed country (not a "3rd world" one) for another example. In USA women earn 70-80% of what men do for the SAME job: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male%E2..._United_States


            The objective is not any kind of special treatment, but to raise awareness, point the facts, trigger thought processes, maybe change for the better.

            Well they can have babies while us males not, so what? men and women are different that's the point, different hormons, different phisical structure, different brains, different life expectancy, different roles in life dictated by nature. To achieve truly equality we should be all hermaphrodites. In a lot of countries Masters/Lords/Bosses (employers) prefer men due to their inability to get pregnant so they cannot stay at home for that reason; the same reason is for female wages... It's not fair but this is not socialism, it's capitalism, and the most important thing is MONEY.

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            • #26
              It always disgusts me reading the comments on any of these posts. It really saddens me the amount of sexist drivel posted on here which usually starts "I'm not sexist" but then leads into a sexist rant

              Here in Scotland there have been quite a few programmes encouraging woman into politics and into the Scottish Parliament. I believe there is now 35% female representation in the parliament thanks to this and 50% representation in the cabinet.

              Often we hear that no industry does this for males - well that isn't true. Just now there is a big drive to get more males into primary school teaching as its considered a good thing to have more positive male role models in children's lives from an early age.

              Before you comment, please think how your female friends or even your mother would respond to what you're saying first - it's probably a good indicator if its off the mark or not

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              • #27
                Originally posted by jheretic View Post
                So your position is that sexism is dead, it's just that men have inherent qualities that are more suited to achieving success? Isn't such a position itself sexist, and indicative of the continued need for feminist activism around under-representation of women?
                Your wording implies that I believe that men are superior to women.
                I do not. I just do recognize they men and women are different.
                Studies have shown men more willing to take risks, and I believe that positions men as the most successful and the most unsuccessful.
                Sometimes taking risks pay off, sometimes it gets you in trouble.

                Originally posted by nils_ View Post
                I think it's interesting to note that under representation of women is always framed as as something being deliberately done by men to women. One could, with equal evidence, claim that men are simply more altruistic and idealistic than women and women aren't pulling their weight when it comes to free software. Also of note is that most accusations of sexism come from outsiders, many of whom are professionally aggrieved so they can't be satisfied no matter what.
                When studying the user base of contributors to Wikipedia which is altruistic and idealistic then men are overrepresented.
                It seems women are not interested in contributing to Wikipedia because it gives them no recognition or positive feedback for their contributions.

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                • #28
                  Originally posted by AndyChow View Post
                  I guess it's probably over 50% already. But both of you are German. You should watch the way you talk. Last time we argued about equality, well, you're legally not allowed to deny it.
                  The problem is, it is only about equality as long as there are less then 50% females. If there are less then 50% males, well thats because males are to stupid/do not want to do the job/wathever ergo we need to change nothing because its their own fault.
                  Every single time.
                  Take the ratio between females and males getting Abitur. As said, it was in 2010 56% females.
                  A view years back. this ratio was the other way around and we had more males getting Abitur, we had a lot of programs
                  to switch the school system around, help women get threw school and so on.
                  Now, there are a lot of people who voice their concern because the drop out rates for males are higher and males get worse and worse education.
                  Do you think there are now changes to help males? Nope. Because if a male does not succeed it is his own fault and if a women does not succeed
                  it is a structural problem.

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                  • #29
                    Originally posted by AndyChow View Post
                    Anyway, these programs serve no purpose except to attract people that aren't interested in the job in the first place.
                    I am not an English native speaker, but your phrasing makes it sounds like you are considering OPW/Outreachy to be part to these programs.
                    Maybe a better phrasing would be "There are other programs which serve ...."

                    Cheers,
                    _

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                    • #30
                      Originally posted by Qaridarium
                      I personally feel discriminated by programs like "GNOME's Outreach Program For Women"
                      it only means that I can not join it only because i do have a penis.
                      You must be thinking about a different program.
                      OPW/Outreachy is open for women independent of their biological gender.

                      Cheers,
                      _

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