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Thread: Gentoo Linux 2008.0

  1. #41
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    On suse from 11.0+ upgrading should be this simple:
    - Point the repos to the newer versions
    - Run
    Code:
    su
    zypper ref
    zypper dup
    and a restart.
    Done

  2. #42
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    I run Gentoo on it! It's incredibly fast! Boot in 22 seconds, shutdown in 5 seconds, and Apps are all fast enough. I just compile when I don't use it!

    ....

    And what about distcc?
    ah, no thanks. For one, it takes me a solid three days to get KDE4 running from /trunk. And it takes a fair amount of time compiling to maintain just that. For two, this rig is far and away the most powerful one in the household. FAR and away. distcc isn't really worth the effort. And besides, the only issues I have running openSUSE 11.0 on this are with my GeForce 6200. Everything else is just fine by me.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Sixpack View Post
    [...]
    While I understand your perspective, that last statement is just downright ridiculous. If it's not supposed to work, then why go tthrough the trouble of creating it? You don't think you're being a little fanatical? The installer may not be FOR YOU, but it's there for a reason. Many people like myself use Gentoo for the packaging system. That's not uncommon, as it's the same reason many people use FreeBSD or Debian. To be honest, you sound elitest and closed minded, and your attitude is the exact image a lot of OSS projects are trying to distance themselves from (at least publically)
    Please remind me why projects like Exherbo and paludis are starting to get so much attention (especially from the gentoo community) again. Oh, that's true! Because they are not for noobs. Maybe I sound elitist, I don't care. Maybe I sound closed minded, but that doesn't matter as long as my argument is valid (if not, tell me why instead of whining about my personality).
    The installer is there for a reason, which is that the project was once started, never completed, but still there because some people might be interested. Okay, I agree that it's not in the place where it should be. I think it should simply be kept off public LiveCDs/LiveDVDs. If you want it, build your own live cd, or go and use a different distro which does support a good installer.

    Having said this, don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to say gentoo should be for elitist, nor am I trying to say the LiveCD devs are idiots (which they (generally ) are not). It's just that a lot of people in this world are complaining about not having everything ready for them, out of the box in a plastic bag. Why don't you just read up on things before you use them, as is good practice in the science world?

  4. #44
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    I didn't thought my post would lead to such a debate.
    I absolutely agree that Gentoo is rock-stable when used on stable arch. I also agree @ 200% that the documentation, even if there are some parts that could be outdated, is very complete, precise and accurate.
    No, the only thing is that when I made my upgrades, I always experimented troubles (GCC upgrade that fails, setup of udev,...) that were mainly not warned. So, as you can't read all the stuff for the 500 packages that will be emerged for a world update, you go for the update.
    After the compilation of the package #152, you get a compile break, with a non-understanble warning message. As you are in the middle of a world update, you generally can't launch KDE/Gnome anymore, so you have to post you help request in the forums using links.I have always been able to finally find the necessary help in the forums / in the wiki at the end, but it's annoying that there is no particular warning message before the compilation breaks.
    I know this would be impossible, but I'd like to see a documentation page sayingwhat packages are introduced since the last official release and what is expected to be done for compiling flawlessly.
    I always sticked to the official releases for upgrading world, in order to avoid to the maximum those kind of troubles.

    I hope I'm clear enough in what I described here. It's not that Gentoo is badly or outdately documented. It's just a matter of how the official upgrades are warned.

    And, once again, it's not for offending anyone here that I'm posting that. It's really for giving the point of view of and end-user, that don't know anything in C coding or those kind of things, but who'd like to use a razor-sharp-tuned distro (and who therefore won't switch to ubuntu ).
    Last edited by Fixxer_Linux; 07-08-2008 at 08:34 AM.

  5. #45
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    Maybe I sound elitist, I don't care. Maybe I sound closed minded, but that doesn't matter as long as my argument is valid (if not, tell me why instead of whining about my personality)
    I've been around long enough to know all about people like you. You think using a the distro that's the hardest to install somehow makes you smarter or better than the average computer user. The sad part is, you don't even deny it. It's 2008 - Linux users like you are in the vast minority, and that "Computer Machismo" crap is lame.

    Okay, I agree that it's not in the place where it should be. I think it should simply be kept off public LiveCDs/LiveDVDs.
    Tell you why your point isn't valid? You just conceded my point. I think your logic and reasoning skills get blinded by your arrogance from time to time.

    If you want it, build your own live cd, or go and use a different distro which does support a good installer.
    And we're back to 2003... "If it doesn't work, fix it yourself" FYI: This is why even a lot of "command line" linux users have switched to Ubuntu. Not just because it works, but because of their accountability. If something is broken, they feel like they're expected to fix it, as opposed to the "Oh well, it's just experimental anyways" line of thinking. The funny part of that is, had the new feature/function actually worked properly, both the devs and the community would be boasting about it. When it falls flat it's always "well it's not really intended for use anyways".

    Having said this, don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to say gentoo should be for elitist...
    But you just said you don't care if you sound elitest. I guess at this point you're beginning to sober up and be reasonable.

    It's just that a lot of people in this world are complaining about not having everything ready for them, out of the box in a plastic bag.
    And now the emotional baggage is exposed... At what point did I say things should work out of the box? If something is broken, it's BROKEN!!!! No excuses. To lack functionality is one thing, as that can be expected. To have it and it not work properly is entirely different. You're taking your frustration out from other people on me, assuming that I'm some brain dead Windows user just because I wanted to use the LiveCD.

    Why don't you just read up on things before you use them, as is good practice in the science world?
    Exactly what didn't I read? How would I know the radeon and lm_sensors wiki are out of date if I didn't read them first? Again, you assumed I was a noob and that I didn't read anything - both of which are untrue. You spent so much of your post ranting about nonsense you didn't stop to think. Read your own words man - you're all over the place.
    Last edited by Joe Sixpack; 07-08-2008 at 11:41 AM.

  6. #46
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    I've been using Gentoo for some time now, and I don't use the automated installers (on the rare occasion I reinstall my own system from scratch). Usually they don't work, and I prefer the manual install anyway. Gentoo, as I see it, is aimed at people who know their way around a Linux system and prefer modifying config files manually rather than using a gui - nothing special about that, just a personal preference. It's definitely not suited for beginners however. I personally also think that if you want a LiveCD/DVD, go with Knoppix. That being said, offline installs for Gentoo are sometimes useful.

  7. #47
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    @Joe Sixpack

    Your post pretty much boils down to "It's 2008, dammit! There's no reason people should have to dive into the command line to do anything! Everything should be rock-solid or completely absent!"

    There's a reason that there is more than one distro out there. Different distros are aimed at different users. Want something that Just Works (TM)? Try Ubuntu, openSUSE, or Mandriva. Want to crack your knuckles and get down and dirty? Go for Gentoo.

    Yeah, Gentoo's rough around the edges. Yeah, it's easy to break if you're not really careful. And yeah, there's a good chance that you'll spend more time in VT's 1-6 than you ever wanted to. But that's kinda the point behind Gentoo. It's aimed at power users who want the utmost control of their system.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffro-tull View Post
    @Joe Sixpack

    Your post pretty much boils down to "It's 2008, dammit! There's no reason people should have to dive into the command line to do anything! Everything should be rock-solid or completely absent!"

    There's a reason that there is more than one distro out there. Different distros are aimed at different users. Want something that Just Works (TM)? Try Ubuntu, openSUSE, or Mandriva. Want to crack your knuckles and get down and dirty? Go for Gentoo.

    Yeah, Gentoo's rough around the edges. Yeah, it's easy to break if you're not really careful. And yeah, there's a good chance that you'll spend more time in VT's 1-6 than you ever wanted to. But that's kinda the point behind Gentoo. It's aimed at power users who want the utmost control of their system.
    Right! you summurized gentoo.


    @ Joe Sixpack:

    We NEVER say "you losers that use ubuntu", NEVER!

    Gentoo is just a choice. If you want a system that just works, again, go for ubuntu and co.
    If you want to learn linux, learn how an operating system is made, and how it works, if you want to tweak performance, and so on... go for something like gentoo.

    If you know how to run gentoo, you know how to run ubuntu. The contrary is not sure (possible but not sure)

    But if you think a distro should "just work", as Linus Torvalds thinks too, just respect our choice!

    We like to get dirty with the command line, yep... but at least if Xorg doesn't start, we just know how to fix it!

    But I never said, and I will never say that users of other distros are dumb assholes! NEVER!

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Sixpack View Post
    I've been around long enough to know all about people like you. You think using a the distro that's the hardest to install somehow makes you smarter or better than the average computer user. The sad part is, you don't even deny it. It's 2008 - Linux users like you are in the vast minority, and that "Computer Machismo" crap is lame.
    Hey you, the guy who knows everything about everyone! Yeah, YOU! Thanks for generalizing. If you're done telling me why I do what I do, I'd like to speak for myself as well.

    Now I don't know everything, as you claim to. I do however know that I do know a lot about a lot of things, and I DON'T think that running Gentoo made me that way.


    I don't run Gentoo because the difficulty makes me leet. It's actually not that hard.

    I run Gentoo because I **enjoy** the difficulty.

    I like a distro that breaks in minor and inconsequential ways on occasion, giving me something to do when I might otherwise be idle. It doesn't break in serious ways. and if I were on stable amd64 instead of testing ~amd64, it probably wouldn't break at all.



    It's the regularly broken down hot rod you're building in the garage. The simple fact that it often needs work is MOST OF THE APPEAL.

    I use a nice current and uninteresting car to get to work. It's reliable, never wants tinkering, and gets me there in totally uneventful fashion.

    On the weekends I'm ripping out those flaky bits and having a GOOD TIME doing it. If I wanted a totally sealed box distro that never let me decide anything or tinker, I'd run Ubuntu. Hell, on my laptop I do. I don't like tinkering on that smaller screen and slightly cramped keyboard. On my big box, I run Gentoo, and I constantly poke at it and tinker with it.

    I DON'T RUN IT TO BE ELITE, I RUN IT BECAUSE I ENJOY WORKING ON IT.
    If it doesn't appeal to you, there are a million other distros, there are all the BSDs, there's HURD, there's OSX, there's Windows. Kindly go run whatever one you choose and stop picking at me and my choices.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffro-tull View Post
    @Joe Sixpack

    Your post pretty much boils down to "It's 2008, dammit! There's no reason people should have to dive into the command line to do anything! Everything should be rock-solid or completely absent!"

    There's a reason that there is more than one distro out there. Different distros are aimed at different users. Want something that Just Works (TM)? Try Ubuntu, openSUSE, or Mandriva. Want to crack your knuckles and get down and dirty? Go for Gentoo.

    No, my post pretty much boils down to "It's 2008, dammit! Being an elitest linux snob is out of style." It really annoys the heck out of me that you try to imply that I'm adverse to using the command line. If that were the case, my favorite distro wouldn't be Slackware. Just like tulcod said, it's in the wrong place. It should at least be in testing, or labeled experimental. Having said that, this whole thing was less about Gentoo being broken and more about his attitude.
    Last edited by Joe Sixpack; 07-08-2008 at 11:34 PM.

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