There's Talk Again About An "Open To The Core" Ubuntu Laptop

[Gusar]

When will you retards learn that Free Software and the Free Software Foundation are not devoted to shill the newest or most impressive gimmicks, but to work on what gives you the most rights as a user.

Why do you think we're too "retarded" to get this? I get it very much. But the FSF won't have much success, when their hardware isn't up to the computing tasks of today and on top of that costs quite a bit. That is the point. It isn't about not getting the freedom part. It's that the price/performance ratio is too off, so in many people's minds the freedom part will get trumped by the impracticality of the machine. Do *you* now get it, or do I need to label you a "retard"?

PS. Labeling people who want a more modern machine "consumerists" won't strengthen your argument. It comes off as very condescending. As if everyone who doesn't share the freedom aspect to the same extent as you do is a mindless sheep or something. One extreme to another, as if there's nothing in between.

[89c51]

/hijack

Would anybody be interested in a similarly free ARM laptop?

13" 1366x768
2GB RAM
dual core Cortex A9
Mali 400 3d / accelerated 2d
8GB flash + SDHC slot
4+h battery life
priced around 200-250 eur incl shipping to EU/US
aluminium case (think MBA look-alike)

It's one I've been thinking about hacking on for a while. Everything would be free software, but there would have to be some firmware blobs for networking and possibly other parts. The soc doesn't support SATA so no SSD/big HD, it does support hw video encoding and decoding but there's no guarantee that block could be exposed in free sw.

Could probably get a SKU of it RYF certified, if that one was shipped without the firmware blobs and using a FSF-approved distro.

Ya, it's slow and with a 16:9 screen, but those are available from China right now, and just need some drivers written. With Mali 3d it'd be one of the best free options.

I'd prefer:

13.3" 2560x1600 with as small of a bezel as possible
16GB RAm
64bit quad core arm
FOSS driver GPU
BIIIIIIIIIG Battery.
Rugged and lightweight construction
Display port capable of 4K out
usb 3.1
Coreboot
wifi ac.
bluetooth
256 SSD.
quality camera and noise canceling mics.
nice design.
fanless if possible
quality keyboard and trackpad

[Adarion]

/hijack
ARM Laptop data

Semi-tempting. But I learned the hard way not to trust any ARM based devices yet. (mainly because of the GPU)
The runtime with just 4h ist not that great - for an ARM device. There are even APUs out (Lenovo E145) that make it up to 10+h (11" though iirc but still, price about 310 E). My old ARM one (less powerful and smaller screen, the AI Touchbook, beagleboard based -> Cortex but horrible ImgTec GPU, several years old now and price back at the time, prototype, no mass production was around 400 E) made it an 11 h. So I'd expect more runtime for a device like this, even with the fairly low price.
Screen sounds meh for today. I wonder why every cellphone sports an IPS HD display and laptops still have these 16:9 1366x786. Even my old 486 was capable of more.
The lack of mass storage options is typical for ARM devices, though. I don't understand why. I have to admit that I have no clue what ARM uses as system bus and if you could attach a SATA chip to a non-PCI. But then, there are bridge chips for helping out with that.

The presence of a Mali, however, is a piece of hope for the device.

What about interfaces? Hopefully more than just one USB 2.0.

...and just need some drivers written.

And who is going to do that? But optimistic thinking, "just needs some drivers written".
May I ask what the Chinese reseller delivers it with? Android maybe?

[cutterjohn]

specs are too weak.

I'd go for preferably 11"(or 13.3" if REALLY FORCED) i5/i7(and if it were 13" it'd better be MQ or HQ quad cores).

4GB is way too low, esp if he's talking soldered and not slotted.

256GB SSD would have to be the min as well.

All of the above should still be doable in a close price range, the biggest cost would be the CPU.

But I've got news for him. In the specs that he give, it already exists in either the Acer C720(i3) or Dell 11(i3) just swap in a 128GB SSD... I bought the c720 and did the 128GB upgrade and croutonized it(ending up actually finding chromeos useful for q&d browsing, or pretty much what I thought that I might use a tablet for, but could never get around the shit input methods for anything relatively complex...).

Personally I'd like even smaller <11" notebooks again, like the old librettos high specs plus small size, and I really don't care about the kb being cramped as it's for being PORTABLE WITH an actual KEYBOARD all in one package. (I was actually looking at old librettos on ebay but decided in the end it was better to go with the C720 i3(only one available at the time), able to play some older games, good enough to do some light programming, more than good enough for spreadsheets/etc. plus good batt runtime(well assuming that you don't go nuts compiling crap or playing too many "heavier" games).)

[curaga]

I'd prefer:

13.3" 2560x1600 with as small of a bezel as possible
16GB RAm
64bit quad core arm
FOSS driver GPU
BIIIIIIIIIG Battery.
Rugged and lightweight construction
Display port capable of 4K out
usb 3.1
Coreboot
wifi ac.
bluetooth
256 SSD.
quality camera and noise canceling mics.
nice design.
fanless if possible
quality keyboard and trackpad

I'm sure you're prepared to pay the 3500$ those specs would cost

The point with using an existing model is to leverage the economies of scale -> get it at reasonable price. A run of < 1000 laptops regardless of specs will easily double or triple what we consider normal prices. Plus me being a software guy, not much chance of jumping into hw.

But yeah, I too have been waiting for at least A15, A9 would likely be way too slow to attract much attention. So probably won't do anything with this model.

And who is going to do that? But optimistic thinking, "just needs some drivers written".
May I ask what the Chinese reseller delivers it with? Android maybe?

I would, it would mainly consist of a 2d driver for regular acceleration and cleaning up their kernel drivers. I already have the register specs for the 2d unit somewhere. They deliver it with Android 4.

Wondermedia is semifriendly to OSS nowadays, they're opening kernels, bootloaders, and occasionally giving programming specs too.

[Adarion]

I would, it would mainly consist of a 2d driver for regular acceleration and cleaning up their kernel drivers. I already have the register specs for the 2d unit somewhere. They deliver it with Android 4.
Wondermedia is semifriendly to OSS nowadays, they're opening kernels, bootloaders, and occasionally giving programming specs too.

Okay, that is quite an announcement.
I am sure you are aware of the exisiting Lima/Mali team. libv is around here. I am sure everybody would be happy about some support for that. I got this Odroid around which iirc also features a Mali 400, but never got the time to install anything since I still need to get that PSU cable soldered.
I don't know if there can be vendor specific implementations of Mali. That would hamper the efforts quite much.

Well, Android. How far is it possible for them to have non-free drivers in there? I heard there are a lot of them but that would violate the GPL of the kernel. Unless, people either don't care or the have some license compatibility layer and put stuff into userspace. Still taints the kernel but is kind of legal. But maybe the Android delivered there does already contain a full featured free driver? Could that be used?
Specs is good - as long as it is sufficient to write a driver. 3d would be fine but especially for laptops power saving functions are important. Is there anything in that regard?

Not to demotivate you or anything, but to me it feels a bit... like a waste of manpower if devs get to work but there is insufficient specs from the start. And they have to rely to reverse engineering which can be horribly tedious. After many years they give up or have a halfway okay driver but the hardware is obsolete and you can't even buy it anymore. E.g. my experience with NV11 and NV20. I respect and admire the nouveau project but they really had a hard time coming so far and still support for these old cards is below average in generic terms. But if you say it's worth it, just do it. If you need beer, cola, tea or anything feel free to ask.

For the laptop itself, well, I have not much clue about arm arch but afaik x86 is having a hard time with coreboot. Flashrom compatible chips, Super-IOs, chipset and GPU support need to be there. That limits choices. I know that Google hired some coreboot people to port coreboot to arm and put it on their Chromebooks. So at least it already runs on pure arm arch but I don't know what variables still wait for the big equation to be solved.

[curaga]

Well I'm not going to compete with lima, I would obviously install lima for the 3d support

But maybe the Android delivered there does already contain a full featured free driver? Could that be used?

Driver for what? Android does not do 2d accel, the official mali kernel side is already available from other sources, and so on.

With power saving etc, I haven't yet looked into it in depth, it's all just preliminary thinking. And probably not going to happen until there's a more powerful unit being produced, too.

[Michael_S]

What happens if AMD beat ARM at their own ISA?
I mean AMD have been developing their own ARMv8 cores for the last few months.

I'm fine with that. I'm not hung up on having x86_64 architecture, as long as the thing can do the software development work I need and enjoy.

Dual core x86_64 and up to 3 GiB of RAM. Seems about as powerful as the latest and most expensive smartphones but for half the price; and comes fully packed with freedom.

Meanwhile, every 2 years you buy a new overpowered mobile computer designed to track you and deceive you in every possible way to play angry birds and post your status on a facebook app.

On your first point, consider that the Free Software Foundation is seeking free software for everyone, everywhere. While the FSF-approved laptop meets their definition of freedom, specifications that are far out of line from modern mainstream $400 devices mean that only an extraordinarily tiny portion of consumers will be interested. We can't topple Microsoft, Apple, Google, and Oracle unless we have something for the typical end user that matches the corporate giants at their own games and also respects user freedoms.

On your second point, the same connectivity that is a boon to the police state and corporations that want to make money selling information on every possible aspect of our lives is also a boon to us. I like seeing what my friends are doing on Facebook. I like sharing pictures of my kids with my mother and my sister without just sending email attachments. I like being able to find the closest tire repair shop when I get a flat tire a hundred miles from my house. I like being able to show the youtube video Fighting Trousers to my friends when we meet for lunch, even if that means my overpriced wireless carrier knows where I am. Most of all, I like that my wife can usually reach me and I can usually reach her when one of the kids has an asthma attack and needs to be rushed to an emergency room, or her car breaks down, or she can't meet me for lunch because something came up at work.

You can hold the people who enjoy those things in contempt, but clearly the general population values those features more than they value the loss of privacy. So again, the FSF path forward isn't to just convince people to give up smart phones. The path forward is Replicant/Firefox OS/Ubuntu Touch plus distributed AGPL license web services that replace Facebook, Twitter, GMail, Whatsapp, and even Angry Birds and Candy Crush.

/hijack

Would anybody be interested in a similarly free ARM laptop?

I like the idea, but no. I want something a lot more powerful. Sorry. Now if someone could get a totally free set of drivers on the new Acer Chromebook - Tegra K1, 4GB of RAM, 1080p screen, $380 US - I might be interested.

I hope there would be enough interest to support such a product. But I just wanted to be honest so that you don't mis-guage potential interest.