Debian Init System Coupling Vote Results

[AJSB]

but most of games do not work under linux without pa either. or under freebsd. so you are still moron

I said that was EoD but you are really mentally challenged so i need to explain SLLLLOOOWWLY to you:

ALL my LINUX NATIVE games work in Slackware (No PA).

ALL my WINDOW$ NATIVE games work in Window$.

...and you are still the moron here....no surprise from an idiot with "666" in account name


Now for real, EoD.

[Gusar]

They forgot to ask the users.

They did not "forget" to ask the users. Users don't get a say because they aren't the ones doing the work.

Thank FSM that users don't get to decide! Skimming the debian-users mailing list, a lot of those folks would not make informed, rational decisions. Irrational people, who are not doing the work, dictating to volunteer developers what they must do is simply not acceptable.

I think Ian Jackson is representing my interests better than the rest of Debian right now.

Unlike members of parliament, who really are your representatives (at least in theory), Debian developers are not your representatives. So your analogy to a parliament does not apply.

[Aguazul]

more batshit crazy ideas from systemd haters. parliament is employed by population, while debian devs are not employed by users.
so go fuck yourself with him and freebsd

Wow, offensive haters, great. I just want a choice. Preferably within Debian, otherwise elsewhere.

[Gusar]

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

Said that citation, I'll say that we are living in a period of history where people doesn't care about principles (because we have never had to fight for); so silently, slowly and softly "they" are taking away our pieces of freedom that our grandparents hardly conquered. These are our last 2 generations. We don't have the bravery to fight, we prefer just those 2 pennies in exchange.

We're talking here about a volunteer development effort. *Not* human rights in a country. Like the other person trying an analogy to parliament, your analogy does not apply. It's a gross over-exaggeration, as if human rights are being trampled by Debian devs not being dictated to what they must work on. It's actually ridiculous.

Let's take the analogy at face value. So our grandfathers fought hard for freedom of choice of init systems (which isn't even true, as the only supported option in pretty much all distros was sysvinit; also, who exactly did they need to fight to obtain that freedom?), and now "they" (the evil evil Red Hat I presume, ignoring that systemd is a multi-distro collaboration) have taken away that freedom (even though Debian still supports sysvinit, and will do so as long as interested people invest the necessary work)? Like I said, ridiculous.

[pal666]

ALL my LINUX NATIVE games work in Slackware (No PA).

ALL my WINDOW$ NATIVE games work in Window$.

moron, where freebsd comes into equation ?
and why 'some linux games are working without pa' is worse than 'no linux games are working without linux' ?
btw, all my linux native games work with pa. all steam linux games(huge majority of sourceless linux native games) support ubuntu, which uses pa.
moron still
btw, it is easy to see where your problems come from. your shitty slackware has broken pa support, and you blame slackware failures on pa.

[log0]

The whole issue is so fscking hilarious.

So there is a bunch of guys working on something cool called Debian and sharing their work for free with everyone else. And then we have a bunch of "users" feeling entitled to tell the Debian guys what they should do or not. And even some nutheads talking about human rights and freedom of choice. WTF, you have the freedom of choice not to use Debian, idiots!

[Aguazul]

They did not "forget" to ask the users. Users don't get a say because they aren't the ones doing the work.

Thank FSM that users don't get to decide! Skimming the debian-users mailing list, a lot of those folks would not make informed, rational decisions. Irrational people, who are not doing the work, dictating to volunteer developers what they must do is simply not acceptable.

Unlike members of parliament, who really are your representatives (at least in theory), Debian developers are not your representatives. So your analogy to a parliament does not apply.

GNOME took the same approach -- don't listen to the users, and have a "take it or leave it" attitude. Well, now I don't use GNOME because all of those animations drive me crazy and it is easier to install XFCE than go around looking for patches to disable them all. And yet I had a long conversation with a GNOME evangelist trying to persuade me I was wrong to switch. Crazy people -- completely missing the point.

Until all my personal concerns are addressed, I won't use systemd. If systemd never addresses my concerns (which as you say they have a right to do as they are paid by other people or are volunteers) then I won't ever use it. Being forced to use pulseaudio which was completely unstable and unreliable on my hardware (although other audio software worked fine) was lesson enough.

It would be a shame to lose all the other benefits of Debian, though, but without any power to influence Debian decisions, the only power left is to switch.

To me systemd is like a dangerous experiment. Maybe it will work out, maybe it won't. We'll see in 5 years perhaps. Until then I'll stick with a more traditional init system.

BTW I am a software developer with free software out there. I'm not a clueless offensive hater like some people on here.

[Gusar]

but without any power to influence Debian decisions, the only power left is to switch.

You have all the power to influence Debian though. You can put in the necessary effort required so that sysvinit will still be a possibility beyond Jesse (that Jesse will support sysvinit is already a given, and that's precisely thanks to the people who put in the necessary effort). This GR decision does not prevent that. This GR decision isn't "systemd or bust".

Gnome devs were a lot more closed, there is was to a large degree "my way or the highway". But that's why we have Cinnamon and Mate. Because people were willing to put in the necessary effort to create alternatives to Gnome.

[tuxd3v]

no...

the majority wins and is the end of it, these guys need to learn to lose and stop this nonsense

The majority loose...the guys that will use Debian in the field...the majority have been forgotten...

This is a sad day...

By this decision does it means that we will get no another option for init??

Why they guys does not issue a statement on it...

Like will be only systemd, or we will have more than one init system...god...

we need to know!
... But it seems to me that Debian will stick ONLY with systemd right??

regards

[tuxd3v]

well..

lolwut

This was not a Technical Committee vote. The Debian Project just had a general referendum with over 400 voters. Ian Jackson proposed the referendum to override the technical committee decision which was made months ago. He just lost, and by a lot.

The winning option was an amendment that basically said "This is stupid and Ian Jackson is wasting our fucking time."

Ian Jackson, was right!!
He knows what he was talking about...!

Debian is in fact driven by Volunteers...but the Volunteers that are in Debian SHOULD remain in the code of conduct of Debian...not their own code...that is not a oligarchy!!

they cannot think that because they are today in Debian, they have the right to overdue everything they can...only because they are volunteers...and the guys that fight in the past??...where is the respect for them??
And the users??

lots of guys choose Debian because of its Code of Conduct...that now, is GONE!!!

If they come to Debian was because they will follow Debian rules...,IF NOT, they will go to CentOs or another... ??

The Debian Values are the ones at stake here...and yes, Debian loose badly...
How will Debian catch free developers after this??

when the people start to realize that Debian in not what the Ancients strive to fight for...???they will go to another project...

After this Debian will never be the same, definitely NOT the same...